Wallabies Watch

[BDA]

I would want to see a bit more of Fotu then one outstanding game and a few good cameos in the last 20 minutes to be convinced, however am happy to be convinced if he can keep it up. For mine Mowen should be a shoo-in for 8, with 6 a contest between Kimlin and Higgers, with experience probably putting Higgers in front at this point.

Most will disagree with me when I say I would not start Alexander at prop. The first thing we should look at in a prop is, can he scrummage at test level. If the answer is no, he isn't in the frame (or perhaps on the bench to come on when everyone else knocks up, which is what I would do with Alexander). Given that criteria, we are restricted to three props, Robbo, Kepu and possibly Palmer (untested at the top level but looks the goods at super level). Given Kepu is now out of the Tahs because he just isn't putting in for 80, I think the run-on props should be Robbo at loose head and Palmer at tight. An interesting facet of these two is that they are both quite short legged, giving them good low hip height which could make them a pretty difficult front row for some of the sides with taller props.

Alexander is a genuinely strong prop at loose-head. At tight head I've always thought he was crap but I was surpriseingly impressed with his work at tight head last year. He made some decent international tight heads look decidedly average at times. So im not sure whether its all just an illusion or Alexandar has genuinely turned a corner in terms of developing his technique. Last week's game suggests the latter. he came in for a one-off game at tight-head and, at least for the first half, dominated the beast (whose own scrumming prowess was a big factor in last series against the Lions). So im cautiously optimistic that he could do the job for us at tighthead.

Alexander certainly has a tendency to scrummage poorly after the 60 minute mark so I wouldn't have him scrummage at tighthead for 80 minutes.

In terms of other options at tighthead, Palmer, Kepu and Slipper are our three options. Of those three you'd have to say Kepu is falling out of the picture at the moment. He's one guy I've always thought was a bit lazy (certainly can have a positive effect aroudn the field when he pulls his finger out) and his recent performances are just reinforcing that view. Slipper is a test level prop, and his scrummaging is generally good, if a tad inconsistent. Palmer is probably the best pure scrummager but unlike Alexander and Slipper, he's not going to make 10 tackles and 30 metres with ball in hand and make an impact in defence.

It's very easy to say props only need to be concerned with scrummaging but it ignores the fact that they only spend about 8-10 minutes of the game packing down. The other 70mins of the game they are either a liablity or an asset. Don't get me wrong being beaten at scrum time is often the catalyst for a team losing, but there are other things to consider.

Whilst I agree that Palmer should be in the side, and that we may be forced to start him after a scrummaging onslaught by the lions in the first test, Id prefer to see us play Alexandar or Slipper at tighthead initially. If they dont cut the mustard then by all means fall back on Palmer.

Lets not forget that scrumming at test level these days is often more about trickery and nous than it is power and technique. The Wales/England game on the weekend was a good example of this. The guys that have been out there playing test rugby for a few years know how to get over ther opposition. That why props generally peak later in their career. Alexander is now at the stage where he is becoming quite experienced at test level and Slipper has undergone his baptism of fire and hazing period, and by now has a lot of knowledge in the bank.

On a side note, I've been very impressed with Pek Cowan this year (another guy with test experience). I'd put him the picture too

 

[qwerty51]

Fotu needs to start packing at 8 if he wants to play for the Wallabies.

 

[en_force_er]

Fotu needs to start packing at 8 if he wants to play for the Wallabies.

I don't know about that, how often do we see a number 8 run that requires brawn in the modern game? It's all craftyness at the base.

He could play Palu's role whilst packing at 6 on attack, easily.

 

[Froggy]

Enforcer, I was picking the pack I would like to see start, not what I think Deans will do. As to the palyers you mention, Dennis had a good super year last year, but really failed to step up at test level, and has been virtually unseen this year despite the captaincy. Ben McCalman had one very good year, since then he has battled injury and there's no evidence he's back to anywhere near that form. Given I like Mowen at 8, that leaves Kimlin & Higgers and, as I said, my choice is Higgers.

BDA, I didn't mean to say a prop should be picked only on his scrummaging, just that it was a basic requirement, those that don't have it need not apply. After that criteria has been filled, we than look at the other assets like ability to run the ball, work rate around the breakdown etc. I'm not as convinced as you of Ben Alexander as a test level scrummager, particularly at tight head. Most props seem to have the odd good test (even 'the fuse' had one great series) but we need a lot more consistency than that. I would definitely have Ben A in my side, but coming on off the bench against tired legs.

 

[Richo]

Isn't it a bit of a Southern Hemisphere approach to trade off scrummaging and around the park play? Against Lions, I would say that it's essential that we have the strongest scrum possible. We simply cannot risk being dominated in that aspect of the game.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I agree with Richo. We can not let NH monster our scrum. Scrummaging victories tend to be remembered for a long long time.

We will never forget that pushover Scrum vs Wales in '84 tour at the Arms Park.

Having your scrum owned is seen by many as the worst insult possible to a teams manliness.

 

[Paradox]

Fotu needs to start packing at 8 if he wants to play for the Wallabies.

That's where Smith will pack.

 

[Paradox]

Palu was one of our best players in the Wales series last year.

To say he has not been effective for a couple of years is incorrect in my opinion.

Every time we have had to play someone else at 8 outside of Palu and Samo in the last few years our forwards have struggled to match the opposition pack for physicality.

Could you carry both Fotu and Palu in the same 22? One to rampage off the bench.

 

[Paradox]

Kimlin at 6 Froggy? The bloke's been okay but he's playing in a great side. Sure, he's filling a role but if we need a line-out jumping 6 with a great work-rate at test level we could play Mowen (my pick)/Quirk on form and Higgers/Dennis/McCalman on experience. Kimlin doesn't get close to ticking the form or experience box for mine.

Now, given you've listed Mowen as your 8 option he probably won't factor into your thoughts at 6 but he's a 6 in the Deans system. The Brumbies are not running the biff at 8, lineout/workrate at 6 that Deans runs.

Deans has showed a willingness to select outside of the box to find a big bustling No8 (Samo was well and truly left of field we he was first picked) so I wouldn't be surprised to see Fotu factor in if Palu is broken but Deans would probably just run Higgers there.

Funny, Kimlin is probably more experienced than all the players you've listed. He isn't a spring chicken and has had a bad run with injuries. His first test cap was 2009. Kimlin is in great form as well. I think you'll find the Brumbies running quite a bit of biff from number 8

 

[Paradox]

Dennis did last year

IMO Dennis was massively overrated last year at Super rugby level. I'll get shot down for saying that but IMO he failed to bring much to the breakdown and his physicality was average. Palu is always the bloke who seems to do the most damange for the Tahs with TPN. Pity he gets crocked so often.

 

[qwerty51]

Yeah that's wrong. Dennis was winning collisions last year when he played 8.

That's where Smith will pack.

Hard to pack from the stands.

 

[Tomikin]

Don't get me wrong, I love Fotu. But I don't think he is ready after one run-on start. Give him a few more weeks to show he can reproduce that sort of form and I will be all over him, for a bench spot anyway.

He was just as brutal last year and deserves a spot.

 

[barbarian]

He was just as brutal last year and deserves a spot.

He started well last year then kind of fell away. He needs to show a bit of consistency before he is seriously considered.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

Could you carry both Fotu and Palu in the same 22? One to rampage off the bench.

Yes. It is the same as playing Palu and Samo.

Especially if you're having a 6-2 split (previously 5-2), you have two props, a hooker, a lock, a fetcher and an 8. Australia only carries a reserve fetcher because they're generally among our best few players and we look to go for dual fetchers late in games. If there is an injury we're generally better off playing a 7 at 6 off the bench than the reserve 6 at 7.

 

[Slim 293]

He started well last year then kind of fell away. He needs to show a bit of consistency before he is seriously considered.
.

Fotu had consistency last year, but he really only played a handful of games in the middle of the season........

He picked up an injury against the Canes and then struggled to get back on the field.......

This year he's had a proper pre-season and is definitely fitter.......

Even the matches he didn't start he's injected some real physicality.....

And I just want to give a mention to Sio because he's really impressed me this year.....

Like Fotu has been really dynamic off the bench, and last week in his debut start against a Springbok prop he dominated in the scrum.....

He's got a big future if he keeps this up..... him and Paddy Ryan.......

Maybe those two can get a bit of game time on the EOYT?

At this stage though I'd probably look at Ryan for a bench spot against the Lions, and in the RC.....

We should make the most out of Dan Palmer while he's here while gearing up Ryan as a possible long term replacement.......

I understand that Palmer is hardly a seasoned test player, but he should be, without a doubt, starting at TH while he's still in Australia.........

 

[fatprop]

I agree with Richo. We can not let NH monster our scrum. Scrummaging victories tend to be remembered for a long long time.

We will never forget that pushover Scrum vs Wales in '84 tour at the Arms Park.

Having your scrum owned is seen by many as the worst insult possible to a teams manliness.

We don't want to be monstered , but we won't beat the Lions by out scrummaging them either, so selections will be a compromise

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Brumby Runner]

BH - I really can't agree with Palu at any cost. But otherwise I could live with your pack even with BA at tight head where I think he struggles in comparison with loose head.

 

[fatprop]

Fotu had consistency last year, but he really only played a handful of games in the middle of the season....

He picked up an injury against the Canes and then struggled to get back on the field...

This year he's had a proper pre-season and is definitely fitter...

Even the matches he didn't start he's injected some real physicality...

And I just want to give a mention to Sio because he's really impressed me this year...

Like Fotu has been really dynamic off the bench, and last week in his debut start against a Springbok prop he dominated in the scrum...

He's got a big future if he keeps this up... him and Paddy Ryan...

Maybe those two can get a bit of game time on the EOYT?

At this stage though I'd probably look at Ryan for a bench spot against the Lions, and in the RC...

We should make the most out of Dan Palmer while he's here while gearing up Ryan as a possible long term replacement...

I understand that Palmer is hardly a seasoned test player, but he should be, without a doubt, starting at TH while he's still in Australia...

Fotu has started one game this year. If, he continues he may be a bench option, but I wouldn't bet on it. Deans isn't going to throw too many test virgins into the Lions series unless there is a plane crash.

I think Fotu should tour in November if he can stay fit.

Palmer is further ahead in his test program, he is a chance with the test prop reserve rule changes. We may get 40 minutes out of him, but as he is leaving, they may choose other options rather than investing in someone who won't be there in November.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Fotu has started one game this year. If, he continues he may be a bench option, but I wouldn't bet on it. Deans isn't going to throw too many test virgins into the Lions series unless there is a plane crash.

I think Fotu should tour in November if he can stay fit.

Palmer is further ahead in his test program, he is a chance with the test prop reserve rule changes. We may get 40 minutes out of him, but as he is leaving, they may choose other options rather than investing in someone who won't be there in November.

I don't necessarily agree with you about Palmer. But does that sentiment also apply to others who may/will not be available next year, eg Folau, Palu, Barnes, etc?

 

[Braveheart81]

BH - I really can't agree with Palu at any cost. But otherwise I could live with your pack even with BA at tight head where I think he struggles in comparison with loose head.

You seem to think Palu is the devil incarnate. I have no idea why.

In the last few years we seem to have got our best results using a combination of Palu and Samo.

Richard Brown, Scott Higginbotham and Ben McCalman haven't provided anywhere near the level of physicality that those two guys have provided from number 8. McCalman would be closest of the three.