Wallabies v Springboks - Suncorp, Brisbane, 10th September 2016

[USARugger]

Our attack in general play was not good in the first two English tests and a lot of that was Foley playing like a metronome and not working to change our point of attack until the match was nearly over (but he had ball of questionable quality so not as much time on it as he should have had - still a poor excuse for not setting up inside runners, not kicking behind a rush defense, etc)

And I have said before aus is never going to beat any decent side by having a game plan built around kicking, that isn't our strength

Our players (and the coaching staff) could try actually improving their skills over time.. that might help with this ludicrous deficiency that seems to be a facet of the player of nearly every backline player we have.

Why is nearly every other Top 8 test nation able to roll out a back line with multiple, reliable kicking options?

It makes Australia rugby look like a bad joke..

The game has been professional for how many years now? There's nothing in Australian DNA that precludes a player from being able to technically and tactically master the art of kicking a fucking football.

I know that you know how badly our lack of ability to manage the kicking (AND CHASING) game impacts the ability of the forwards to even get possession with which to cock up in the first place, or be in the right part of the field to miss their one-up tackles. The forwards lay the platform but many times the backs dictate where on the field that platform is even going to be - both of these are equally important for a rugby team to be successful at test level.

 

[Joe Blow]

I better add & 10 to keep a specific reader happy - he played nearly all his rugby prior to 2015 @ 10 including in Aus teams.

I really would have liked to see him at 12. Maybe we will get to see that sometime during this RC?

 

[KOB1987]

I better add & 10 to keep a specific reader happy - he played nearly all his rugby prior to 2015 @ 10 including in Aus teams.

quite possibly he's our 10/12 of the future. For now though I'm just happy to see him in the team and his versatility makes him a tremendous bench option while he gains experience, kinda like KB (Kurtley Beale) has been used in the last couple of years. That's not to say I don't see him getting a start in the midfield this year.

 

[emuarse]

OK Torps, you look like coaching material to me. The back line is yours.
MC

 

[Strewthcobber]

You don't pick Foley if you want a kicking 10, just like you didn't pick Larkham if you wanted a goal kicking 10. You always build a side around the strengths and weaknesses of the each player. "If" Foley is 10, you need other kicking options, when Larkham was 10 you needed a goal kicker etc etc

And I have said before aus is never going to beat any decent side by having a game plan built around kicking, that isn't our strength, our backs and forwards have never had that off the ball workrate/attitude to do it effectively.

Anyway to me the backs argument is a smoke screen, our pigs haven't provided that consistent platform to build any pressure.

They can't win lineouts, can't provide dominant tackles, can't turnover enough ball, can't cleanout accurately.

Until that stuff is sorted all our backs will continue to look like the pants.

We need to build pressure, to create those mismatches and we simply haven't been

The problem appears to be that Foley thinks he is a kicking 10 and/or is being instructed to be the man when kicking is required

 

[ACT Crusader]

The best place kicking 1st 5 in Australia IMO is the young Rebels 10. But he has deficiencies in other areas that are probably holding him back from national selection.

 

[Brumby Runner]

You don't pick Foley if you want a kicking 10, just like you didn't pick Larkham if you wanted a goal kicking 10. You always build a side around the strengths and weaknesses of the each player. "If" Foley is 10, you need other kicking options, when Larkham was 10 you needed a goal kicker etc etc

And I have said before aus is never going to beat any decent side by having a game plan built around kicking, that isn't our strength, our backs and forwards have never had that off the ball workrate/attitude to do it effectively.

Anyway to me the backs argument is a smoke screen, our pigs haven't provided that consistent platform to build any pressure.

They can't win lineouts, can't provide dominant tackles, can't turnover enough ball, can't cleanout accurately.

Until that stuff is sorted all our backs will continue to look like the pants.

We need to build pressure, to create those mismatches and we simply haven't been

I think you're much too kind to the Wallabies and especially the backs FP.

And by the way, you have commented that Foley wasn't too shabby in the first two tests against the Poms. Although I can't agree with that, it is interesting that those were the games where we had a running No 12 rather than a second play maker iirc. Makes me wonder (again) why there was a need to change the structure then, and even moreso now by moving Foley to 12.

 

[fatprop]

The problem appears to be that Foley thinks he is a kicking 10 and/or is being instructed to be the man when kicking is required

It goes deeper than that, whoever is 10 and kicking has two real options.

Kick to touch
Kick to space

The kick to touch is a re-set and suits teams with solid set piece and defensive lineout (does that sound like us?)

The kick to space (which is the primary Wobs approach because we don't want the re-set) is about the kick finding space and a good pressuring chase and a solid defensive line.

So too long just lets the receiver kick or run back (and when was the last time we won a kicking duel) as our chase is crap.

One of my biggest issues with Greg Clarke's commentary is his bemoaning of kicks not going out when that was the plan

We need a good chase, a good kick that finds grass and pressure, the 10 is a major part of the calculation but he doesn't play the game on his own.

Foley's kicking? When it is good he finds grass and gives the the chase time to pressure and his shorter length becomes a positive because of that pressure exerted. When the same kick finds a receiver coming forward - we see the results.

My presumption is that they way he is used is part of the plan, it just has not been working well

 

[Braveheart81]

The best place kicking 1st 5 in Australia IMO is the young Rebels 10. But he has deficiencies in other areas that are probably holding him back from national selection.

Wait. Jack Debreczeni kicked at 66% in the 2016 Super Rugby season which was the lowest success rate of any kicker in the competition who took more than 20 shots at goal.

He had a couple of outstanding days from the kicking tee but had many more woeful ones.

 

[fatprop]

I think you're much too kind to the Wallabies and especially the backs FP.

And by the way, you have commented that Foley wasn't too shabby in the first two tests against the Poms. Although I can't agree with that, it is interesting that those were the games where we had a running No 12 rather than a second play maker iirc. Makes me wonder (again) why there was a need to change the structure then, and even moreso now by moving Foley to 12.

I thought not having that second play maker was the biggest issue with the backs, Jones was smart enough to heavily defend him and we had no other creative options, add a strong defence and a dominant pack and ............................

Throughout his play with a decent 12 (like Beale) there is a load of swapping and allows the 10 to run more because the 12 can step in. I don't see the step one out as a major positional change. But he and Cooper didn't look like they had played any rugby together

It is the style Cheika prefers as you more attacking options such as right/left playmakers and playing behind the pod runners as a second man play

 

[Tip]

I thought not having that second play maker was the biggest issue with the backs, Jones was smart enough to heavily defend him and we had no other creative options, add a strong defence and a dominant pack and ..........

Throughout his play with a decent 12 (like Beale) there is a load of swapping and allows the 10 to run more because the 12 can step in. I don't see the step one out as a major positional change. But he and Cooper didn't look like they had played any rugby together

It is the style Cheika prefers as you more attacking options such as right/left playmakers and playing behind the pod runners as a second man play

It wasn't a lack of 2nd playmaker, it was the lack of a primary playmaker.

Foley had all the ball in the English series and couldn't do squat with it. You don't need two playmakers, just a 10 that can Pass & kick. Foley struggles to pass anywhere but to his inside man, and his kicking woes are well documented.

 

[Scrubber2050]

It's simple really.

Foley is NOT a playmaker

 

[fatprop]

It wasn't a lack of 2nd playmaker, it was the lack of a primary playmaker.

Foley had all the ball in the English series and couldn't do squat with it. You don't need two playmakers, just a 10 that can Pass & kick. Foley struggles to pass anywhere but to his inside man, and his kicking woes are well documented.

Interesting that we had that new 10 last match and the woes continued, we had that 10 who could "Pass and Kick" and ....................... gee look at the improvement

 

[Joe Blow]

Foleys kicking is inconsistent and he rarely gets distance and finds space as Quade did in the last test. However, Foley does have a pretty good all around game and no-one can doubt his commitment to the cause. His running and backing up game is good but he cannot find space for others like Cooper or Beale can.
He is not a 12 though and he should probably be on the bench with Hodge or Kerevi at 12. The Boks will target his channel relentlessly with big ball carriers.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Interesting that we had that new 10 last match and the woes continued, we had that 10 who could "Pass and Kick" and ......... gee look at the improvement

Agree that Cooper wasn't the saviour last game.

BUT at least he has the POTENTIAL to be that great "playmaker"
Foley just doesn't have IT, and never will.

 

[Braveheart81]

Putting a word in bold with capital letters sure has me convinced.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Putting a word in bold with capital letters sure has me convinced.

Your attempt at humour falls short as usual.

Try and put your petty tribalism on hold until the Super season

 

[Lindommer]

Black. Kettle. Pot.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Black. Kettle. Pot.

Haha Lindo

Jump in

Understand you are trying to be funny but I don't understand why you would put 3 separate thoughts as expressed because you separated them with full stops.
It would have been much better

Black Kettle Pot.

 

[Lorenzo]

I'm not a Cooper fangirl but his kicking was substantially better than foley's during the last test. On the very first clearance of the game he moved play into their half with a strong clearance. When was the last time Foley managed that from his 22??

That shit makes a difference. Surely people here appreciate how good it is for us that they set up a lineout on their own 45 rather than our 40?