Writing shit like this is not the shortcut to being taken seriously.
Wallabies v Springboks - Suncorp, Brisbane, 10th September 2016
- Thread starter KOB1987
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Scott Allen on twitter. Certainly not official but I would be surprised if it isn't correct.
Unless we finish with the hobbit backrow.
Lorenzo
Colin Windon (37)
You really are desperate to justify Foley's continued inclusion if you're saying we aren't better off with stronger out-of-hand kickers than we have at the moment. Wow.
All other things being equal, we're better off with them getting their ball closer to their goal line, even if our chase is incompetent.
All other things being equal, we're better off with them getting their ball closer to their goal line, even if our chase is incompetent.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
That's a shame. Would have enjoyed him having a cameo to see if he is at this level (I have my doubts).
If he was good then we can have a real 7 and 8, each playing in position
Lee Enfield
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Those posters criticising Foley are either blinded by state bias or Rugby illiterate, either way they are ignorant. Foley is not only amongst the best players wearing the 10 jersey in the world, but one of the best players in world rugby, period.
You can't judge Foley by traditional 10 standards, to do so ignores the fact he is redefining how the postion is played.
In years from now, he will be remembered as a pioneer, like the 1st female pilots, 1st male trolley dollies, Cristopher Columbus, Marco Polo and Galileo.
You can't judge Foley by traditional 10 standards, to do so ignores the fact he is redefining how the postion is played.
In years from now, he will be remembered as a pioneer, like the 1st female pilots, 1st male trolley dollies, Cristopher Columbus, Marco Polo and Galileo.
He's also spent most of the last two years playing lock.
Well done. That is good.
John S
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Sp by "redefining" you mean playing like a busted? He's a good player, but his form's been shot. Who knows, maybe Cheik won't let him go play in Japan at the end of season again.
Twoilms
Trevor Allan (34)
It's a pretty sound argument actually. Kick's are useful with either a stronger lineout or more pressure on the chase. Without either, deep kicks against a much stronger kicker achieve nothing. Convince me that anyone, even including those not in the current squad, will be going to be able to compete with Saffa, AB or Pom out of hand kickers. Bet you can't.
That being said, i think our lineout might actually be competitive with Mumm in the run on side (although thats about the only way you could justify his inclusion from the start). Half our issues still lie at Moore's feet sadly.
Moore's inclusion is really the only continued inclusion that makes little or no sense. You can persist with unsuccessful combinations in order to increase their chances of executing through experience, and that's generally a good approach in sport. However, Moore is old and his execution is going to go no where but down from here. His confidence is already destroyed, hated by refs world over, and playing worse game by game. Why even subject him to it? Cheks refusal to select, in my opinion, the far superior TPN flies in the face of reason and those asserting his bias for Tah players.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Are you serious ?
I see Braveheart is on-board Haha
I thought the last few lines where he says he will be remembered as a pioneer etc. etc. was a pretty big clue that the whole post was entirely tongue in cheek.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Lorenzo
Colin Windon (37)
It isn't a sound argument at all. Saying that we might as well accept mediocre kicking because we don't have kickers as good as the competition is like saying we shouldn't pick the best scrummagers in the front row because they aren't as good as the africans or kiwis. Would you rather give away 5 scrum penalties or 1?
Cooper very quickly demonstrated he is a superior out of hand kicker to foley and it assisted us agains the ABs. Would you prefer our exit ends with their lineout on their 45, or our 40? Because you are selecting the latter when you let Foley do the kicking.
We can't avoid kicking even if we want to. We need to kick out of our own halfbecause you can't reliably (or at least, we can't) control the ball out of your own red zone and move it down the field. Even the ABs usually don't try that.
You don't need to have the best kicker in the planet to improve your position by kicking and you don't need to have the best lineout. We are giving the ball away as it is, either through turnovers in the tackle, or knock ons or chargedowns, or poor kicking. If we can't control possession, we might as well influence position and play the game in their half and not ours.
What's infuriating is that there are now several players in the setup that can kick well. DHP, Hodge, Cooper, yet we still ask Foley to do the kicking.
Whilst I agree that DHP in general is a better general play kicker, he has certainly been responsible for some of the worst kicks in the last two games.
He needs to step up tomorrow night particularly in defence. He's not going to win the fullback jersey because he is unable to defend effectively on the wing. Falling off tackles can't be excused because he isn't a specialist winger.
It is a regular occurrence around the world that fullbacks get their initial test experience on the wing because there is another fullback ahead of them but they have forced their way into the test side anyway.
He needs to step up tomorrow night particularly in defence. He's not going to win the fullback jersey because he is unable to defend effectively on the wing. Falling off tackles can't be excused because he isn't a specialist winger.
It is a regular occurrence around the world that fullbacks get their initial test experience on the wing because there is another fullback ahead of them but they have forced their way into the test side anyway.
Twoilms
Trevor Allan (34)
So, we choose a 10 that gets us further out of our own half, regardless of any other characteristics a 10 is supposed to possess and no matter how shit we are once we get an extra 10 metres down the field. Even AB clearing kicks deep in the 22 rarely make it past half way so don't give me this BS about the opposition throwing a lineout in their own half from an exit kick.
DHP isn't really that great and has had plenty of shots at exiting and not doing noticeably better. Cooper is a slight improvement on Foley and that's reflected in his continued presence in the team. So far we've established that Hodge can belt the fuck out of a spot kick. That's it.
In any other situation, besides an exit kick, kicking will significantly play into the strengths of our opposition and away from our (extremely limited) current abilities bar maybe the odd chip and chase to surprise a high defensive line.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
thats enough of that sort of talk
Lorenzo
Colin Windon (37)
Yeah, total BS. 17 seconds in.
I never said we should pick a kicker at 10 above everything else, merely that the people that can actually kick (who are fucking out there already anyway) should be doing the kicking.
Twoilms
Trevor Allan (34)
Well that wasn't entirely what you were saying to begin with but i'll concede that Quade oughta do a lot more of it if he's about.
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