Wallabies v Springboks - Suncorp, Brisbane, 10th September 2016

[Strewthcobber]

It goes deeper than that, whoever is 10 and kicking has two real options.

Kick to touch
Kick to space

The kick to touch is a re-set and suits teams with solid set piece and defensive lineout (does that sound like us?)

The kick to space (which is the primary Wobs approach because we don't want the re-set) is about the kick finding space and a good pressuring chase and a solid defensive line.

So too long just lets the receiver kick or run back (and when was the last time we won a kicking duel) as our chase is crap.

One of my biggest issues with Greg Clarke's commentary is his bemoaning of kicks not going out when that was the plan

We need a good chase, a good kick that finds grass and pressure, the 10 is a major part of the calculation but he doesn't play the game on his own.

Foley's kicking? When it is good he finds grass and gives the the chase time to pressure and his shorter length becomes a positive because of that pressure exerted. When the same kick finds a receiver coming forward - we see the results.

My presumption is that they way he is used is part of the plan, it just has not been working well

The nfl has a great stat that they use to assess their punters - hang time. That's what Foley has been lacking. Time in the air, which allows for our defense to get up and align properly.

 

[Lorenzo]

I've often thought hangtime was a much underused metric in rugby. Giteau never had any hangtime either. I'd say Cooper's is materially better, given the higher arc he achieves.

 

[Joe Blow]

His initial clearance to touch was long and then he had two other kicks in the first half that found space a long way down field. All of our infield kicks had been going to hand in recent tests. He also had one so so touch finder from in the in-goal but it was his only average kick on the night.

 

[Lindommer]

It would have been much better

Black Kettle Pot.

Don't muck with a grammar nazi, S2050. Yours should be "It would have been much better: black, kettle, pot." Your overuse of the bold is matched by your excess capitals.

 

[fatprop]

I'm not a Cooper fangirl but his kicking was substantially better than foley's during the last test. On the very first clearance of the game he moved play into their half with a strong clearance. When was the last time Foley managed that from his 22??

That shit makes a difference. Surely people here appreciate how good it is for us that they set up a lineout on their own 45 rather than our 40?

Agreed, that first kick took them off guard, but after that they defended a few yards further back and their was no further threat created

This continual drive to kick better and change the backs is lovely, but while your pigs are not providing decent, consistent ball, no back is going to be better or look better.

We need consistent front foot ball, with that all our backs suddenly start to look like champions

 

[Lorenzo]

A strong kicker keeps those deep defenders honest. Look at Louis Fouche of the kings. He has a leg cannon which keeps the fullback and winger deep, and can place the ball between him and them for a positive outcome. Then if they move up, he goes long. Now, the kings aren't a good outfit, but it's clear to anyone watching of the benefits of having a guy that can kick long.

With Foley, the defence has no need to go deep, and can easily field the kicks.

 

[fatprop]

The nfl has a great stat that they use to assess their punters - hang time. That's what Foley has been lacking. Time in the air, which allows for our defense to get up and align properly.

Yeah Jack Gibson's advice to Peter Stirling when playing at the SCG was kick to the seagulls ie find the grass, hang time or finding the grass are both equally effective at giving the defenders time to limit options.

The good thing about this weekend is that the Boks are far less effective at getting the ball around that chase line.

Instead we get to watch those non contested kicks returned with interest; which is another load of issues

 

[KOB1987]

Most of the people on here should be opening up a betting account and loading up on the Boks. We are $1.60 favourites and you can get tasty odds of $2.90 for the Boks. If you play the line you get a 4.5 pt start for the Boks.

 

[Joe Blow]

I think we are going to be much more competitive up front this week and our backs will have some time and space, a luxury they have not been afforded so far in this RC.
It will be very interesting to see what they can do with it.

 

[Lorenzo]

Agreed, that first kick took them off guard, but after that they defended a few yards further back and their was no further threat created

This continual drive to kick better and change the backs is lovely, but while your pigs are not providing decent, consistent ball, no back is going to be better or look better.

We need consistent front foot ball, with that all our backs suddenly start to look like champions

The wallabies have performed significantly better (than they have this year) over the years with a pack that has been as beaten as the one we are rolling out now.

There are things that we can do to reduce the magnitude of the disadvantage that we incur by getting dominated in the forwards.

We've never had sustained periods of forwards dominance yet we've often managed to stay in the number 2 spot by winning often against SA, Usually against England, occasionally against the ABs and pretty much all of the time against everyone else.

If your only strategy is to play players that can only operate behind a champion pack, you better get used to sucking.

 

[fatprop]

The wallabies have performed significantly better (than they have this year) over the years with a pack that has been as beaten as the one we are rolling out now.

There are things that we can do to reduce the magnitude of the disadvantage that we incur by getting dominated in the forwards.

We've never had sustained periods of forwards dominance yet we've often managed to stay in the number 2 spot by winning often against SA, Usually against England, occasionally against the ABs and pretty much all of the time against everyone else.

If your only strategy is to play players that can only operate behind a champion pack, you better get used to sucking.

Actually I disagree, we start to be OK when we get parity, from about 35 minutes into the first test this year parity has been a dream

We simply can't get enough ball to build pressure. We currently don't have parity at set piece or at ruck.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Don't muck with a grammar nazi, S2050. Yours should be "It would have been much better: black, kettle, pot." Your overuse of the bold is matched by your excess capitals.

Last words for me:

As a wordsmith and Nazi you would undoubtedly be aware that
Black, Kettle and Pot are all proper nouns and it is quite permissible for the first letter to be a cap.

Back to rugby

 

[Brumby Runner]

It goes deeper than that, whoever is 10 and kicking has two real options.

Kick to touch
Kick to space

The kick to touch is a re-set and suits teams with solid set piece and defensive lineout (does that sound like us?)

The kick to space (which is the primary Wobs approach because we don't want the re-set) is about the kick finding space and a good pressuring chase and a solid defensive line.

So too long just lets the receiver kick or run back (and when was the last time we won a kicking duel) as our chase is crap.

One of my biggest issues with Greg Clarke's commentary is his bemoaning of kicks not going out when that was the plan

We need a good chase, a good kick that finds grass and pressure, the 10 is a major part of the calculation but he doesn't play the game on his own.

Foley's kicking? When it is good he finds grass and gives the the chase time to pressure and his shorter length becomes a positive because of that pressure exerted. When the same kick finds a receiver coming forward - we see the results.

My presumption is that they way he is used is part of the plan, it just has not been working well

So it seems that a short kicking game plan is the way to go with the Wallabies because we don't ever win the long kicking duels. Looks like a bit of positive reinforcement there supporting Foley's deficient kicking game.

With a proper game plan, some extra skills coaching and more and more good practise, someone like Hodge would be very effective at a long kicking game imo.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Talk about boot on the other foot. All the franchise wailing this year is about defending the likes of Mumm, Hooper and Foley in the test side.

We really just need to recognise that the Wallabies also currently have a quota system that must be filled to the coach's satisfaction.

And please don't come back and accuse me of Brumbies' bias. I am outspoken about it being time to replace Moore, to put Tom Robertson on the bench in favour of Allan Ala'alatoa, of having Hooper as the No 7 when Pocock leaves, and of selecting Kerevi at 12 in place of Foley. I have also long called for Holloway to be included when he is fit, and if Fardy is to be rested/replaced, then I think it should be by Dempsey or Cottrell. I am a Wallabies' fan no matter where the best players come from - the present side does not contain the best players imo.

 

[Ignoto]

Most of the people on here should be opening up a betting account and loading up on the Boks. We are $1.60 favourites and you can get tasty odds of $2.90 for the Boks. If you play the line you get a 4.5 pt start for the Boks.

Tomorrow's weather is shaping up to be a gusty thunderstorm in the afternoon. So those are some enticing odds if you want to punt on it being a shot at goal fest!

 

[Scrubber2050]

Talk about boot on the other foot. All the franchise wailing this year is about defending the likes of Mumm, Hooper and Foley in the test side.

We really just need to recognise that the Wallabies also currently have a quota system that must be filled to the coach's satisfaction.

And please don't come back and accuse me of Brumbies' bias. I am outspoken about it being time to replace Moore, to put Tom Robertson on the bench in favour of Allan Ala'alatoa, of having Hooper as the No 7 when Pocock leaves, and of selecting Kerevi at 12 in place of Foley. I have also long called for Holloway to be included when he is fit, and if Fardy is to be rested/replaced, then I think it should be by Dempsey or Cottrell. I am a Wallabies' fan no matter where the best players come from - the present side does not contain the best players imo.

BR
well balanced and thought out post

I also am a Wallaby supporter, irrespective of which franchise a player hails from.

I suppose I get the shits (personally) when Chek's opinion and mine fail to meet

Always have believed in saving the tribalism for the Super season

 

[fatprop]

So it seems that a short kicking game plan is the way to go with the Wallabies because we don't ever win the long kicking duels. Looks like a bit of positive reinforcement there supporting Foley's deficient kicking game.

With a proper game plan, some extra skills coaching and more and more good practise, someone like Hodge would be very effective at a long kicking game imo.

mate, it can be, every part of rugby has a counter, that is what makes it so interesting

for example, a longer kicking game? to what end?

to a team like the ABs has the opportunity to counter from 20 meters deeper, their effort to work back means they have plenty of time to get 4 or 5 support runners in place

A team like the poms or the boks has extra time to line up their return kick

So do you kick it out deep? To the Boks it will be thank you very much a lineout and kick for touch with them likely to either win our lineout or make the ball shit creating more pressure

Now a great long kick with a real chase is fantastic, but who in the Wobs side has the pace and focus to create that pressure consistently? Not our wingers, neither is known for that off the ball work rate that means busting your gut chasing every kick. Our centres? nah

So the only chaser left is Hooper, and he shouldn't even be in the side apparently

 

[Braveheart81]

Timani is the player left off the bench apparently.

 

[A mutterer]

Timani is the player left off the bench apparently.

sauce?

 

[KOB1987]

Timani is the player left off the bench apparently.

That's interesting because the inference is that one of Pocock or Hooper won't be playing 80 minutes.