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Wallabies v Springboks, Sat 10th August 2.30pm AEST @ Suncorp,

dru

dru

David Wilson (68)
I'd be interested if anyone is happy to show alternate stats, but Espn:
Aus scrums 5 won from 5; SA 6 won from 8
Aus line outs 18 won from 20; SA 14 won from 16.

My recollection is with others here suggesting the set piece from the WBs was poor. To be fair, in the line out we were gradually restricted to jumping from the front, if I could read it surely the Boks were all over it. @TSR you think it was the throw? Nasser came on at 41 mins and the issue continued in my mind. More than (just) the throw I suspect.

With the scrum I thought one problem was the WBs letting the Boks break through the THP. I didnt think that continued once Zane took over from AAA.

More than this though, it is the gain line not just the set piece that is our starting issue, I think. Both in D and in making no ground in attack.
 
Shiggins

Shiggins

Simon Poidevin (60)
Can't even after that shit. Just had nothing to offer in attack. The pommy ref was shocking. Some very rough calls against the wallabies mainly in the first half that didn't make any sense. But what does anything matter if you offer nothing when ball is in hand.

In the immortal words of Rob Schneider
"Oh nooo, we suck again"
 
Hawko

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
Most people on here need to get a cup of tea and have a good lie down.

SA have probably got 5 players in the world's top 10, we haven't got one. This was the world's best team vs a team somewhere between eighth and tenth. We can expect that if both sides play to their capabilities we will lose by 40 or 50 points. The South Africans could play their third best 23 and still expect to beat us, though maybe not by 40.

We don't have a loose head of the quality of Ox, we don't have a hooker of the quality of Marx or Bongi, we don't have a tight head of the quality of Koch or Malherbe. They had two of the all time greats as their locking pair, du Toit and Etsebeth. Only McReight (injured) and Valetini in our squad would have a hope of making the SA touring squad and only Valetini would be considered as a possible starter at 8. Tupou just doesn't train hard enough and misses lots of games. Our forwards were always going to get rolled today - most of them gave of their best but it was men vs boys.

We just have to suck it up and keep trying to develop a competitive team. We also have to throw Giteau's law in the bin and do what the South Africans do. Best Australians on the planet get picked regardless. We don't have the luxury for anything else.

And our Super coaches are incompetent, even the supposedly good ones. Staniforth goes to the Brumbies for three or four years, supposedly the home of great forward coaching. Plays off the bench 90% of the time. Comes to Sydney to get a starting role and for several years is universally derided as useless. Goes to France, arguably the world's best league, and immediately goes into top 5 best locks status. Our coaches do not value what's important. And that is why we are second tier and why SA are a 40 point better side than us.

Today was better than I expected. This is just where we are.
 
TSR

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
Hey Dru - interetesting stats but I think the lineout ones might look better because we ended up winning a couple of ones we fluffed - but obviously didn’t win in the manner intended. My impression was both throwers missed there marks although at the end SA was freely giving up front of the lineout and we won a succession to Wilson at 2. But maybe I’m wrong and it was the jumpers/lifters getting it wrong. Not completely unusual for new combinations against a very strong and settled lineout but it seemed to really hurt us.

Agree on your point about the gain line. At top level they talk a lot about winning the collisions. We definitely didn’t today.
 
Shiggins

Shiggins

Simon Poidevin (60)
Hawko said:
Most people on here need to get a cup of tea and have a good lie down.

SA have probably got 5 players in the world's top 10, we haven't got one. This was the world's best team vs a team somewhere between eighth and tenth. We can expect that if both sides play to their capabilities we will lose by 40 or 50 points. The South Africans could play their third best 23 and still expect to beat us, though maybe not by 40.

We don't have a loose head of the quality of Ox, We don't have a hooker of the quality of Marx or Bongi, We don't have a tight head of the quality of Koch or Malherbe. They had two of the all time greats as their locking pair, du Toit and Etsebeth. Only McReight (injured) and Valetini in our squad would have a hope of making the SA touring squad and only Valetini would be considered as a possible starter at 8. Tupou just doesn't train hard enough and misses lots of games. Our forwards were always going to get rolled today - most of them gave of their best but it was men vs boys.

We just have to suck it up and keep trying to develop a competitive team. We also have to throw Giteau's law in the bin and do what the South Africans do. Best Australians on the planet get picked regardless. We don't have the luxury for anything else.

And our Super coaches are incompetent, even the supposedly good ones. Staniforth goes to the Brumbies for three or four years, supposedly the home of great forward coaching. Plays off the bench 90% of the time. Comes to Sydney to get a starting role and for several years is universally derided as useless. Goes to France, arguably the world's best league, and immediately goes into top 5 best locks status. Our coaches do not value what's important. And that is why we are second tier and why SA are a 40 point better side than us.

Today was better than I expected. This is just where we are.
Click to expand...
Eight or tenth ? Sit down son. We all still think the wallabies are top 5
 
Marce

Marce

Peter Sullivan (51)
Hawko said:
SA have probably got 5 players in the world's top 10, we haven't got one. This was the world's best team vs a team somewhere between eighth and tenth.
Click to expand...
That's the point. Australia used to have players in the world's top 10 and used to be a Top 3 or Top 5 team consistenly even in the last decades with Robbie Deans, Ewen McKenzie or Cheika. I'm not talking about the golden Era

Now is consistenly a Top 8/10 nation, that's sad
 
TSR

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
Hawko said:
Most people on here need to get a cup of tea and have a good lie down.

SA have probably got 5 players in the world's top 10, we haven't got one. This was the world's best team vs a team somewhere between eighth and tenth. We can expect that if both sides play to their capabilities we will lose by 40 or 50 points. The South Africans could play their third best 23 and still expect to beat us, though maybe not by 40.

We don't have a loose head of the quality of Ox, We don't have a hooker of the quality of Marx or Bongi, We don't have a tight head of the quality of Koch or Malherbe. They had two of the all time greats as their locking pair, du Toit and Etsebeth. Only McReight (injured) and Valetini in our squad would have a hope of making the SA touring squad and only Valetini would be considered as a possible starter at 8. Tupou just doesn't train hard enough and misses lots of games. Our forwards were always going to get rolled today - most of them gave of their best but it was men vs boys.

We just have to suck it up and keep trying to develop a competitive team. We also have to throw Giteau's law in the bin and do what the South Africans do. Best Australians on the planet get picked regardless. We don't have the luxury for anything else.

And our Super coaches are incompetent, even the supposedly good ones. Staniforth goes to the Brumbies for three or four years, supposedly the home of great forward coaching. Plays off the bench 90% of the time. Comes to Sydney to get a starting role and for several years is universally derided as useless. Goes to France, arguably the world's best league, and immediately goes into top 5 best locks status. Our coaches do not value what's important. And that is why we are second tier and why SA are a 40 point better side than us.

Today was better than I expected. This is just where we are.
Click to expand...
I agree with sone of what you say Hawke - but I’m going to continue to bristle at this suggestion that someone being named a world beater on form OS. Firstly, exactly how many can actually be world’s best in a single comp because that title seems to be given to a hell of a lot of players, and secondly I’d argue that when these guys have come back more often than not they haven’t been significantly better then when they left, other than some improvement that comes with experience and maturity.

What we need to do (IMO) is broaden our base and improve our pathway development. Not a short term fix at all, but far more sustainable than parachuting guys in. In that sense relaxing the Giteau law would be a disaster IMO.
 
drewprint

drewprint

Alan Cameron (40)
Hawko said:
Most people on here need to get a cup of tea and have a good lie down.

SA have probably got 5 players in the world's top 10, we haven't got one. This was the world's best team vs a team somewhere between eighth and tenth. We can expect that if both sides play to their capabilities we will lose by 40 or 50 points. The South Africans could play their third best 23 and still expect to beat us, though maybe not by 40.

We don't have a loose head of the quality of Ox, We don't have a hooker of the quality of Marx or Bongi, We don't have a tight head of the quality of Koch or Malherbe. They had two of the all time greats as their locking pair, du Toit and Etsebeth. Only McReight (injured) and Valetini in our squad would have a hope of making the SA touring squad and only Valetini would be considered as a possible starter at 8. Tupou just doesn't train hard enough and misses lots of games. Our forwards were always going to get rolled today - most of them gave of their best but it was men vs boys.

We just have to suck it up and keep trying to develop a competitive team. We also have to throw Giteau's law in the bin and do what the South Africans do. Best Australians on the planet get picked regardless. We don't have the luxury for anything else.

And our Super coaches are incompetent, even the supposedly good ones. Staniforth goes to the Brumbies for three or four years, supposedly the home of great forward coaching. Plays off the bench 90% of the time. Comes to Sydney to get a starting role and for several years is universally derided as useless. Goes to France, arguably the world's best league, and immediately goes into top 5 best locks status. Our coaches do not value what's important. And that is why we are second tier and why SA are a 40 point better side than us.

Today was better than I expected. This is just where we are.
Click to expand...
Look I agree with all of this, and also did expect we’d lose handsomely (I think my phrasing earlier in this thread was we’d be ‘spanked’) but what does irk me was we never even fired a shot, however minor. Being there in the stadium, a long suffering yet still dedicated and paying fan, I just wanted them to give me something, ANYTHING, to cheer for. But there was nothing except for some tongue in cheek cheers for the late try in junk time. That’s what gets me shitty. I fully expected the sizeable loss, but not the lack of a single moment to get behind.
 
Marce

Marce

Peter Sullivan (51)
Paisami is the worst inside centre in the competition by far. He can't compete against Santiago Chocobares, Damian De Allende or whoever picks the ABs at 12
 
dru

dru

David Wilson (68)
TSR said:
Hey Dru - interetesting stats but I think the lineout ones might look better because we ended up winning a couple of ones we fluffed - but obviously didn’t win in the manner intended. My impression was both throwers missed there marks although at the end SA was freely giving up front of the lineout and we won a succession to Wilson at 2. But maybe I’m wrong and it was the jumpers/lifters getting it wrong. Not completely unusual for new combinations against a very strong and settled lineout but it seemed to really hurt us.

Agree on your point about the gain line. At top level they talk a lot about winning the collisions. We definitely didn’t today.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the ESPN stats have changed when you re-check 24 hours later. I did think the set piece not up to holding ground against the Bokke.
 
Shiggins

Shiggins

Simon Poidevin (60)
This game showed that Gordan can't start against a top 5 side. Fine against Wales but not even close to good enough against SA. Bring white back in
 
TSR

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
It wasn’t a good day for Gordon, but 9 is like 10 - all of the options have their drawbacks.

If White played today I doubt we’d have much difference in the score.
 
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