Wallabies V Ireland, Brisbane

[RugbyReg]

I think its a bloody good backline, that's why. If you start with combination alone, its got a massive head start on ours. Man for man, I think it probably surpasses

JOC (James O'Connor) v Kearney - at this stage, I'd go Kearney every day.
Bowe v AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - bloody tight, Bowe has been terrific in the last couple of years. Possibly equal though. Either way in the end.
BOD v Horne - Drico by a mile
Gits v Wallace - Gits probably, although Wallace is kind of like the glue for the paddies. Just completes the whole of the sum of the parts.
Mitchell v Trimble - again, pretty close and dependant on which Drew turns up.
Cooper v Sexton - I'd go Sexton to be honest, for his ability to control a game, and greater all round game.
Burgess v O'Leary - again, pretty damn close.

So through Sexton, BOD and Kearney I reckon it goes to the Paddies.

But that's just my opinion, and purely based on 'paper form'. Who turns up on the day though, who knows?

 

[Thomond78]

Yes but only because I believe that it shouldn't just rely on paper-rock-scissors.
There are many other party/drinking games that can be used as well.
Cumulative score at the end of the night.

Fair enough. We're on Lord Nelson beers or Beamish, mind.

 

[matty_k]

Fair enough. We're on Lord Nelson beers or Beamish, mind.

I have no problems with that but I think a fairer way would be toss of the coin before each drinking event to determine who chooses the drink. Must be some form of beer, full strength and no low carb options.

 

[tranquility]

I think its a bloody good backline, that's why. If you start with combination alone, its got a massive head start on ours. Man for man, I think it probably surpasses

JOC (James O'Connor) v Kearney - at this stage, I'd go Kearney every day.
Bowe v AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - bloody tight, Bowe has been terrific in the last couple of years. Possibly equal though. Either way in the end.
BOD v Horne - Drico by a mile
Gits v Wallace - Gits probably, although Wallace is kind of like the glue for the paddies. Just completes the whole of the sum of the parts.
Mitchell v Trimble - again, pretty close and dependant on which Drew turns up.
Cooper v Sexton - I'd go Sexton to be honest, for his ability to control a game, and greater all round game.
Burgess v O'Leary - again, pretty damn close.

So through Sexton, BOD and Kearney I reckon it goes to the Paddies.

But that's just my opinion, and purely based on 'paper form'. Who turns up on the day though, who knows?

Maaaaate, let me skip straight to Sexton. You truthfully rate him as a better 10 than Quade on current ability? this almost voids your whole argument.
In the same sense that BOD is in a different class to Horne, Giteau too is several layers of class above Wallace - even on current form.
Tommy Bowe is a very exciting talent, but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a world class outside back at the peak of his powers and takes the points easily.
Kearney is a good fullback with a great boot however he offers very little with ball in hand and is very slow. However this position is debatable.
Trimble and Mitchell I agree almost cancel each other out, but if push came to shove I might actually choose Trimble because he makes less errors and is a bigger body.

As a unit and on home soil I would bet my house the the Australian backline will be far more cohesive than the Irish. I also expect our pack to shade theirs.

I would be disappointed in a win of less than 10 points.

 

[dobduff11]

Kearney is not slow at all its just that he doesn't seem to counter attack for Ireland alot any more, he hasn't been the same player since the lions tour.


JOC (James O'Connor) v Kearney -Kearney just shades it as he is better under the high ball, JOC (James O'Connor) has a more promising future though.
Bowe v AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - Bowe has been really good in the NH but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a great carrier and kicker, probably AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
BOD v Horne - O'driscoll more experience great player he wins
Gits v Wallace - Gits is still a good player and would get into almost an NH team, Wallace is average and second string to d'arcy, therefore gits
Mitchell v Trimble - Trimble is a good player but maybe not that domiant in tests, shmoo has played lots of tests but is inconsistent, draw
Cooper v Sexton - I'd go cooper, good form hasn't lost his head yet was blitzed by england and kept it together, sexton good but only has 1-2 years expereince of top flight rugby
Burgess v O'Leary - same sort of player, o'leary is fsat but not polished, same can be said of burgess, draw

Best backline
Aus-3
Ire-2
draws - 2

 

[Lee Grant]

I'm still depressed from being at the stadium when the Poms beat us. But carry on.

 

[Scotty]

Tranquility. Giteau does not rate above anyone in the Irish backline, because is the current deathnell of the Australian backline. If he gets injured during the game - mark my words out backline will perform better as a unit.

It isn't individual talent that determines the backlines performance, it is how they play together. Without a straight running centre outside of Cooper (Giteau still goes sideways, and Horne isn't getting involved), then his talent and options are also limited. Especially now that Ioane won't be there to give him the inside ball option. Look how much better the Reds type of set up suited Cooper - two hard running centres, one hard running and roving blindside wing, one quick open wing and an elusive fullback.

We would have been much better having a centre pairing of Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) with Hynes on the wing. Why this or similar hasn't at least been trialled by Robbie is beyond me. Giteau is no longer going to win us more games than he loses us. He is best form is well past.

 

[matty_k]

If both Cooper and Giteau are running sideways then it doesn't leave much room for Horne.

 

[RedsHappy]

.....

It isn't individual talent that determines the backlines performance, it is how they play together. Without a straight running centre outside of Cooper (Giteau still goes sideways, and Horne isn't getting involved), then his talent and options are also limited. Especially now that Ioane won't be there to give him the inside ball option. Look how much better the Reds type of set up suited Cooper - two hard running centres, one hard running and roving blindside wing, one quick open wing and an elusive fullback.

We would have been much better having a centre pairing of Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) with Hynes on the wing. Why this or similar hasn't at least been trialled by Robbie is beyond me. ......

Scotty - excellent comments/suggestions. I am a Reds fan, but I think your assessment is objective and correct. I am greatly surprised at Hynes's recent omissions, which dumfound me (after Hynes's excellent S14 2010) when contrasted with your also correct assessment that RD appears to have blind faith in Giteau and has not in any form confronted his awful performance inconsistencies of the last (at least) 12 months.

This is just Case Number 63 of facts that I find contrast so strongly with the argument of the Deans/Williams fans that 'the depth and youth nurturing policy' is the only one best suited to saving the Wallabies. They seem to insist on ignoring all these other major, critical-to-winning-games issues and hard facts just beneath the surface.

One other thing: tragic for the Wallabies that another price of those ridiculous BaaBaas games was that of Chambers' and A Fainga'a's injuries, let along TPN's recurrence.

 

[fatprop]

Gits was pretty good outside Larkham and runs pretty good support lines, but I agree the backline balance isn't great at the moment.

 

[matty_k]

From my understanding when Gits had Larkham inside him he knew his place but now that it is this young upstart Cooper, he feels he should be leading and making the plays. I don't think he likes it. He is looking for ways to assert his will.
Hence the sideways running and the need to kick those penalty goals without asking what his captain wants.

 

[Ash]

RedsHappy; the Baabaas games weren't ridiculous, just the performance of "Aus A" in the second one was. The second tier ("A" level) international games are very important for development. Injuries are part and parcel of the game and Chambers and Fainga'a were just unlucky with theirs. Chambers in particular, as he did it very early (and geez, it was obvious, as he was immediately limping and could not run but still made a few tackles before going off) and was the only player who could 13 in the matchday 22. BTW, I expected Fainga'a to have been cited for his clearout in the ruck where he charged in with no arms, and think he was lucky to get off. Of course, if by "ridiculous" you meant the performance of "Aus A" at Gosford, then I agree entirely with you. Even the score board, which crashed every few minutes and couldn't display the time, performed better than "Aus A".

Regarding Hynes, unless he is training the house down he has not done enough to be selected. Yes, he had a good year, but struggled since getting his knee cleaned up. His performance in Gosford was particularly average (but as someone correctly pointed out on the blog, him and Turner were alternating at fullback in that game), and his cameo in Perth was not great either. Also, it appeared at Gosford that Hynes couldn't run cleanly, and was still struggling a bit with his knee. Don't be so surprised at Hynes' omission as I don't think he's been fit enough or in form enough to play for the Wallabies in any of the June tests.

First thing I think the backline needs to work on is not Giteau's drifting or kicking, but the wide defence and defence after a break. Both Mitchell and J'OC have been found out in these areas a little too much for my liking. Mitchell in particular is an enigma on defence, where he can be solid in one game, to all arms and falling off everything the next.

Personally, I'm still more worried about the pack, but glad that the Paddies won't threaten us so much in that area. Chisolm has been a huge let down, and it amazes me he has made it to 50 caps. A glaring indictment on the lack of depth in the Wallaby second row.

 

[TheTruth]

Yeah bit nervous about the pack but happy with their improvement and the fact that it appears the meercats have gone underground since the first test in Perth so should work as 8 pigs both around the park and at scrum time - BUT the fabled backs should flog the paddys - OZ by 15

 

[RedsHappy]

RedsHappy; the Baabaas games weren't ridiculous, just the performance of "Aus A" in the second one was..... Of course, if by "ridiculous" you meant the performance of "Aus A" at Gosford, then I agree entirely with you. Even the score board, which crashed every few minutes and couldn't display the time, performed better than "Aus A".

Regarding Hynes, unless he is training the house down he has not done enough to be selected. ....(re Chisholm) A glaring indictment on the lack of depth in the Wallaby second row.

Thanks Ash. I'm harsher re those BaaBaas game than you. I think of the fans and the money they paid in all good faith (not suggesting you don't care about them, btw). My core objection is that 9,000+ people were asked to see games where, IMO: (a) the Oz teams appeared to have no solid prep as a team by competent coaches - the feel was almost that of good but disjointed regional country team that had other jobs to do during the week (b) the degree of 'for the selectors' pleasure' rotation and player experimentation that magnified the games' scrappiness and lack of cohesion and was insulting to the fee-paying fans as the games appeared less about intensely-won Oz victories than providing cameo views for the selectors (c) the re-use of TPN within game 2 was just stupidly reckless in terms of the post-Perth Test scrum's then needs. I blame the ARU and coaches for most of the above.

Then, as per you, I think it's near shameful that we lost one of those home soil games and just managed to draw another. Overall, on the England tour, we have one win out of four games!! I mean, is this not shocking for us all? (Oops, sorry, I forgot: it's all about development, I keep making this mistake).

Re Hynes: Now I think you are too harsh . For me, those positional swaps in the BaaBaas games plus the overall nature of them (see above), made it hard to assess many of the players' real status via them. Hynes' S14 record this year was in providing just what Oz needs right now (you know all Hynes' skills and strengths, no need for a repeat here). Plus his record under real pressure is excellent, not sure if you can say that for all our backs right right now. If he's injured, that's another matter, I defer to your data on that.

But let me ask something else: If it's OK for Genia to come straight back to a key Test last Saturday with zero game time anywhere since May 15 (and manifestly not fully recovered), why do we say that a few iffy moments for Hynes in the BaaBaas games should now prohibit his return, and then we have the ever-under-pressure-inconsistent Giteau automatically selected every time after many, many ordinary performances in the last 12 months (S14 and Tests)? Then we have the fact that Horne is not exactly dazzling us just yet in Tests (to say the least), and he is now coming on every time. I would argue that Hynes' record in Test and S14 is manifestly superior to Hornes' (not suggesting they swap places, just a general selection point). My point is that there is a great deal of (for me) inexplicable inconsistency and oddity re the way selections into the team are currently being made....and I am hardly alone in making this point.

 

[RedsHappy]

RedsHappy.... Chisolm has been a huge let down, and it amazes me he has made it to 50 caps. A glaring indictment on the lack of depth in the Wallaby second row.

Indeed. But that glaring indictment goes deeper. For me, THE biggest single (and singularly unfixed) problem in Australia rugby over the past say 5-7 years is the under-development of an adequate stock of the quantity and types of forwards required to consistently best the top teams and deal with typical injury-out %s. (The latest forwards injury crisis is something we react to as though a horrific disease has befallen us, vs something that we should have expected the ARU and elite coaches to have, over time, developed the depth to deal with.)

I don't just mean raw numbers, I mean all of that and: excellence of breakdown and loose ball skills (plus 'mongrelisation' and attack mentality), speed-to-ball and physical conditioning-for-fast-play capabilities, defence in depth, etc.

This is NOT a knocking comment re our many fine forwards today, or of yesterday. Rather it is surely blindingly obvious that (a) deep forwards talent, skill and attitude and injury contingency is critical to getting to the top table in the modern game and (b) this is precisely where Australia has had trouble in fielding balanced teams...well....since say 2003?

IMO, we need strategic, underlying new solutions and development approaches to this issue, not just 'let's hire another coach and hope he does something'. If we don't fix this whole problem soon, we're absolutely destined to be a mid-tier (at best) rugby nation for the long haul.

 

[RugbyReg]

glad they are doing this at least, particularly for Chiundiza.

Media is advised the Qantas Wallabies will wear black armbands tomorrow night in the Bundaberg Red Rugby Series Test against Ireland at Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane. The move is a mark of respect as the Rugby community mourns the passing this week of a long-serving former ARU office bearer and a Sydney Schoolboy. · Ron Meagher lost a battle with illness yesterday at the age of 76. He was involved with the game for almost 60 years as a player, referee and for more than a decade as a Board member and senior committeeman with both ARU and the NSWRU. He was also made a Life Member of both unions in recognition of his considerable contribution to the game. · Teenager Kundayi Chiundiza died at home on Monday morning. He played in the First XV for his school, St Andrew’s Cathedral College, the previous Saturday. He was injured during the game, taken to hospital but later released. A coroner’s report is being prepared to determine the cause of death.

 

[daz]

glad they are doing this at least, particularly for Chiundiza.

I hadn't heard about Chiundiza. Very sad news.

Is the assumption that the injuries from the game contributed to his death? If so, I hope it wasn't medical negligence to release him home.

Everytime something serious like this happens, my son becomes one step closer to taking up professional sudoku. Best to keep this news away from my missus......

 

[DPK]

While Chiundiza's death is very sad, dont forget, there were 71 deaths recorded in English rugby from 1890 to 1893 alone.

 

[Gagger]

Regarding Hynes, unless he is training the house down he has not done enough to be selected. Yes, he had a good year, but struggled since getting his knee cleaned up. His performance in Gosford was particularly average (but as someone correctly pointed out on the blog, him and Turner were alternating at fullback in that game), and his cameo in Perth was not great either. Also, it appeared at Gosford that Hynes couldn't run cleanly, and was still struggling a bit with his knee. Don't be so surprised at Hynes' omission as I don't think he's been fit enough or in form enough to play for the Wallabies in any of the June tests.

+1. He's a solid defensive winger moved to fullback with a crock knee and "deceptive" pace. With the new ruck interps that's probably not enough.

Happy for him to be around the squad as long as his knee isn't as long term buggered as I suspect; i.e. Tune-esque cartilage catastrophe. I don't get the mania as he hasn't seemed dangerous at an international level since his 2008 test against the French.

 

[#1 Tah]

If AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) goes down with an injury, who goes to the wing?
JOC (James O'Connor)?
Beale?
Barnes?

God help us.