Wallabies V Ireland, Brisbane

[David]

I think QC (Quade Cooper) at 10 is the way fwd but it's not just the defensive hole he's leaving at the moment, he also gave away how many penalties (3?) by memory 2 of which led to points (? not at computer) and missed how many shots at goal (2 or 3?). Things to put against the 5 points he scored solo.

Also - something fucking strange was happening communications wise between him and Burgess. Saw Burgess often looking back trying to spot QC (Quade Cooper) / figure out what was going on. Wonder if Gits was getting in the way as no such problem in test 1 vs Poms when Sookface at 12?

I've spoken to some players that he has played with at club level and also Barnes and they all say the same thing. He's brilliant but very hard to play with because no-one knows what Quade is doing including Quade himself. Quade works well with Ant and Genia well so maybe its just a matter of developing combinations with Quade takes longer.

The most bizarre situation in the match was when Beale with a clear run to the try line if he maintained his speed and angle, choose to grubber kick it to ... you guessed it! Giteau. Since dishing shit out to Giteau is the flavour of the month, I wonder if Giteau called for that ball?!

There is no way Giteau called for that, the spray the Beale got (and rightly so) from Giteau was both funny and indicative of the Wallabies mental state. Beale's first thought kick approach may work at s14 level but it won't work at test level.

 

[Langthorne]

Beale had many situations where he could have kicked but didn't. In fact, apart from that glaring error, I thought that he played well. He needs to be more judicious in his play - maybe taking the ball into contact more often if that is what is required, rather than trying the magic pass or kick - but of all the problems the Wallabies had, his (extremely frustrating and unneccesary) kick is pretty low on the list.

 

[David]

Beale had many situations where he could have kicked but didn't. In fact, apart from that glaring error, I thought that he played well. He needs to be more judicious in his play - maybe taking the ball into contact more often if that is what is required, rather than trying the magic pass or kick - but of all the problems the Wallabies had, his (extremely frustrating and unneccesary) kick is pretty low on the list.

No doubt, but I thought that kick epitomised stupid play by the Wallabies and Giteau's reaction reflected the mood within the camp.

 

[RedsHappy]

No doubt, but I thought that kick epitomised stupid play by the Wallabies and Giteau's reaction reflected the mood within the camp.

Yes, agree David, let's not start painting over those types of (potentially) major, unforced, game-losing errors by Wallaby players as 'his only error that game otherwise he was fine', etc. That's absurd, with respect. This is our top national team in a key Test and Beale should do (much) better with the small number of opportunities that come up in Tests to score tries and win games. Just shows how low our standards and expectations have become.

 

[DPK]

Yes, agree David, let's not start painting over those types of (potentially) major, unforced, game-losing errors by Wallaby players as 'his only error that game otherwise he was fine', etc. That's absurd, with respect. This is our top national team in a key Test and Beale should do (much) better with the small number of opportunities that come up in Tests to score tries and win games. Just shows how low our standards and expectations have become.

I only agree to some extent; Mitchell has earned a lot of the criticism he has recieved but as an occasional winger myself, its very difficult to create play if you dont receive the ball more than a handful of times. Cooper has the advantage of being able to recieve the ball upwards of 15 times; he can test and observe the defence to see its strengths and weaknesses, try different approaches. If, like Horne, you get the ball ONCE, you get one shot to make something crazy happen- if you choose the wrong option, your performance looks shite.

Outside backs need decent, frequent pill to make shit happen.

 

[RedsHappy]

I've spoken to some players that he has played with at club level and also Barnes and they all say the same thing. He's brilliant but very hard to play with because no-one knows what Quade is doing including Quade himself. Quade works well with Ant and Genia well so maybe its just a matter of developing combinations with Quade takes longer.
.

Well, all I can say is that they better all start fast getting used to playing with Cooper and playing bloody well with him and not making a lot of the ever-more-typical Wallaby speak on such matters that just amounts to excuse-making vs showing top quality skills and back line integration. If 'no one knew what he was doing' the Reds back line would not have played with the tremendous skill and capability it showed this year. And note: Chambers was entirely new to it. The 2010 Wallabies are dangerously over-dependent on Cooper at this time. We need multiple other back line players to stand right up, and soon. He gets injured - statistically likely some time soon - and the Wallabies could easily go from 'having repetitive difficulties' to 'having repetitive disasters'.

 

[RedsHappy]

I only agree to some extent; Mitchell has earned a lot of the criticism he has recieved but as an occasional winger myself, its very difficult to create play if you dont receive the ball more than a handful of times. Cooper has the advantage of being able to recieve the ball upwards of 15 times; he can test and observe the defence to see its strengths and weaknesses, try different approaches. If, like Horne, you get the ball ONCE, you get one shot to make something crazy happen- if you choose the wrong option, your performance looks shite.

Outside backs need decent, frequent pill to make shit happen.

DPK: Let me say. I am a big fan of Mitchell. I think the way his potential dismissal from the Test team has been leaked to the media (obviously by Wallaby management) is a panic-ridden disgrace of awful man-management that will do _absolutely nothing_ to help Mitchell, or the team. If people cannot see that Deans is now seriously rattled and a major problem we have in real self-confidence of game strategies and tactics, then blow me down.

Mitch needs constructive help to work through why he has slipped (defence more so than anywhere?), and intelligent support to get back to his fast, aggressive best, which I think he could do, and quickly too. In short, he needs a damn good coach(es) who know how to 'revive' a fully capable player like him. This new mania to now rapidly drop players who have recently been on a major 'up' trend line in recent performances in 2010, is highly debatable. (That cannot be said of Gits and equivalent other old favourites who've manifestly been on a 12+ month 'down' trend line.)

As I've said elsewhere, that someone like Mitchell could go from S14 mini-hero to Wallaby near-zero in about 6+ weeks is as much more about the culture of the whole Wallaby set-up than it is about a player of distinction (and a player we need) like Mitchell.

Then we have the other fact that there are clear deficiencies in the whole Wallaby back line coaching capability - you may well not agree with them, but you may have seen my posts on that key subject.

Finally, it can surely be said that if a player in Horne's position only gets the ball the once in a Test match (even if for 40 mins)....well, what is that revealing about the state of the team? Partly, it's revealing that much of that absurd kicking that went on had no proper forethought, sound tactical construction, and, really, no place in a sound game plan to thrash the Irish.

 

[David]

DPK: Let me say. I am a big fan of Mitchell. I think the way his potential dismissal from the Test team has been leaked to the media (obviously by Wallaby management) is a panic-ridden disgrace of awful man-management that will do _absolutely nothing_ to help Mitchell, or the team. If people cannot see that Deans is now seriously rattled and a major problem we have in real self-confidence of game strategies and tactics, then blow me down.

Mitch needs constructive help to work through why he has slipped (defence more so than anywhere?), and intelligent support to get back to his fast, aggressive best, which I think he could do, and quickly too. In short, he needs a damn good coach(es) who know how to 'revive' a fully capable player like him. This new mania to now rapidly drop players who have recently been on a major 'up' trend line in recent performances in 2010, is highly debatable. (That cannot be said of Gits and equivalent other old favourites who've manifestly been on a 12+ month 'down' trend line.)

As I've said elsewhere, that someone like Mitchell could go from S14 mini-hero to Wallaby near-zero in about 6+ weeks is as much more about the culture of the whole Wallaby set-up than it is about a player of distinction (and a player we need) like Mitchell.

Then we have the other fact that there are clear deficiencies in the whole Wallaby back line coaching capability - you may well not agree with them, but you may have seen my posts on that key subject.

Finally, it can surely be said that if a player in Horne's position only gets the ball the once in a Test match (even if for 40 mins)....well, what is that revealing about the state of the team? Partly, it's revealing that much of that absurd kicking that went on had no proper forethought, sound tactical construction, and, really, no place in a sound game plan to thrash the Irish.

I am going to put it out there, since Richard Graham took over as assistant coach (aka backline attack coach) for '09 and '10 our attack has gone to the shit heap. I think I might start a Richard Graham must go club, because that and Foley leaving was the only real difference between '08 and '09 and look at the teams performance change over those two years.

 

[RedsHappy]

I am going to put it out there, since Richard Graham took over as assistant coach (aka backline attack coach) for '09 and '10 our attack has gone to the shit heap. I think I might start a Richard Graham must go club, because that and Foley leaving was the only real difference between '08 and '09 and look at the teams performance change over those two years.

David, thanks, I am inclined to agree ;-).

Moreover, I am very confused - always have been - re what this "Skills Coach" position actually does and what are its KPIs. Does it cover breakdown skills, passing, every skill, what exactly? It's certainly not clear that it's the equivalent of fully credentialed back line and back line attack coach, I don't think that this position has even quite been stated that way, and that is precisely one of my main concerns over the whole coaching set up. The need for dedicated back line coaching appears to have been totally lost in this somewhat odd "skills coach" set up.

Now I add below an extract - late March 2009 - of an interview that GAGR had with Richard G just prior to his joining Wallaby-land (please promise not to laugh when you get to the last 2 paras):

Richard Graham, the newly appointed Wallaby skills coach, is looking forward to coming home to be part of the Wallabies set-up, not only because he’ll get to live close to Sydney’s great beaches, but more particularly working with Robbie Deans.

Speaking to G&GR from his coaching den at English Premiership club, Saracens, Graham explained:

“We will get home (from London) two days before the first Wallaby camp. To start with I’ll be in Brisbane but probably after the end of year tour we’ll move to Sydney – after being a London boy for 7 years I’m looking forward to it, especially the beaches. It will be great to work with Robbie, he’s a great fella, a deep thinker of the game, very honest and very grounded.”

It was a meeting with Deans on the Wallabies Autumn tour of Europe last year, where the selection process for the job begun.

“We met, as he (Deans) did with a fair few Australian coaches while he was over here, we had a chat and I guess he got a feel for me as a person. We also spoke a few times on the phone after that and I suppose he did his research, talking to people I’d worked with to find out what sort of coach I was – it all seemed to progress from there.”

Apart from Graham being impressed with Deans as an individual he is also impressed with what he has achieved skills wise with the Wallabies in his first season with the team.

“Robbie’s game philosophy is one very much based on skills and developing a player’s abilities. He’s certainly a long way down the track in terms of promoting that philosophy and working with the players in promoting those skills. For me it will be about developing those skills to fit in with the overall game plan or game structure.”

 

[Reddy!]

No doubt, but I thought that kick epitomised stupid play by the Wallabies and Giteau's reaction reflected the mood within the camp.

Giteau cries murder when others make mistakes, but giggles like a immature school girl on the bus when he loses a test match off his own boot.

 

[David]

David, thanks, I am inclined to agree ;-).

Moreover, I am very confused - always have been - re what this "Skills Coach" position actually does and what are its KPIs. Does it cover breakdown skills, passing, every skill, what exactly? It's certainly not clear that it's the equivalent of fully credentialed back line and back line attack coach, I don't think that this position has even quite been stated that way, and that is precisely one of my main concerns over the whole coaching set up. The need for dedicated back line coaching appears to have been totally lost in this somewhat odd "skills coach" set up.

Now I add below an extract - late March 2009 - of an interview that GAGR had with Richard G just prior to his joining Wallaby-land (please promise not to laugh when you get to the last 2 paras):

Richard Graham, the newly appointed Wallaby skills coach, is looking forward to coming home to be part of the Wallabies set-up, not only because he’ll get to live close to Sydney’s great beaches, but more particularly working with Robbie Deans.

Speaking to G&GR from his coaching den at English Premiership club, Saracens, Graham explained:

“We will get home (from London) two days before the first Wallaby camp. To start with I’ll be in Brisbane but probably after the end of year tour we’ll move to Sydney – after being a London boy for 7 years I’m looking forward to it, especially the beaches. It will be great to work with Robbie, he’s a great fella, a deep thinker of the game, very honest and very grounded.”

It was a meeting with Deans on the Wallabies Autumn tour of Europe last year, where the selection process for the job begun.

“We met, as he (Deans) did with a fair few Australian coaches while he was over here, we had a chat and I guess he got a feel for me as a person. We also spoke a few times on the phone after that and I suppose he did his research, talking to people I’d worked with to find out what sort of coach I was – it all seemed to progress from there.”

Apart from Graham being impressed with Deans as an individual he is also impressed with what he has achieved skills wise with the Wallabies in his first season with the team.

“Robbie’s game philosophy is one very much based on skills and developing a player’s abilities. He’s certainly a long way down the track in terms of promoting that philosophy and working with the players in promoting those skills. For me it will be about developing those skills to fit in with the overall game plan or game structure.”

By skills coach I think they mean backs coach because the Wallaby players I've spoken to refer to him as the backs coach. Regardless I find it very amusing that since he has taken over the general skill level of the wallabies has gone down quite considerably. Everything Deans did in 2008 made sense, he brought through new players, made the right selections and surprise surprise won a few games. From '09 onwards some of his decisions makes me believe he's gone troppo, now not all of these problems should be placed at Graham's feet but he is an ex sevens player with the heart the size of a peanut when he played so I guess its no surprise any emphasis on defence has gone out the windows.

Giteau cries murder when others make mistakes, but giggles like a immature school girl on the bus when he loses a test match off his own boot.

I think that is a bit unfair on Giteau, I very much doubt that he didn't care.

 

[daz]

I think that is a bit unfair on Giteau, I very much doubt that he didn't care.

I don't think anyone, even the anti-Giteau folks (of which I am occasionally a member) would claim Gits doesn't care. But, perception is reality as they say. I'd much prefer Gits to react with a loud "FUCK I'M USELESS!" and look disgusted at himself than giggle like a girl seeing her first dick.

 

[RedsHappy]

I don't think anyone, even the anti-Giteau folks (of which I am occasionally a member) would claim Gits doesn't care. But, perception is reality as they say. I'd much prefer Gits to react with a loud "FUCK I'M USELESS!" and look disgusted at himself than giggle like a girl seeing her first dick.

Not all girls react like that...

 

[daz]

Not all girls react like that...

Ah, you've met my sister then?

 

[RedsHappy]

By skills coach I think they mean backs coach because the Wallaby players I've spoken to refer to him as the backs coach. Regardless I find it very amusing that since he has taken over the general skill level of the wallabies has gone down quite considerably. .... not all of these problems should be placed at Graham's feet but he is an ex sevens player with the heart the size of a peanut when he played so I guess its no surprise any emphasis on defence has gone out the windows.
.

David: the pieces are now starting to make more sense to me, from what I am seeing on the field. Thanks. (Just a btw: his recruitment blurb to the Wallabies in March 09 never as far as I can tell designated him a backs coach, or dedicated to backs' skills.)

So, Graham is sort of, de facto, a backs coach with the Wallabies, but is billed as Skills Coach. Interesting. David: What experience - if any - does he have of coaching full-time a back line for a number of seasons with one of the main rugby nations at Test level? What exactly did he do and achieve at Saracens, do you know?

 

[RedsHappy]

Ah, you've met my sister then?

I could take this particular humour on a line further, but it might get us into trouble (or never 'speaking' again).

 

[daz]

I could take this particular humour on a line further, but it might get us into trouble (or never 'speaking' again).

Haha! Good point. Anyway, back to the rugby.....