Wallabies v All Blacks @ Suncorp - 18/10/14

[Ulrich]

All Blacks will bounce back and bounce back well. The Wallabies will have to play out of their skins here I feel.

If the Wallabies do somehow win people will probably start talking about the aging All Blacks again and how they have peaked too soon blah blah. That in itself could make them much more dangerous for next year.

 

[Ulrich]

There are some in the Kiwi press that believe things are really bad for the Wallabies. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10616834/Theres-no-getting-away-from-McKenzies-woes

 

[Joe Blow]

There are some in the Kiwi press that believe things are really bad for the Wallabies. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10616834/Theres-no-getting-away-from-McKenzies-woes

They would probably be right

 

[Ulrich]

They would probably be right

If any of this holds any truth then the board needs not only look at the coach and those under him, but also at those who are sitting directly above him. Things have not been too rosy for Australian rugby in a while. A proper new direction at all levels is required.

It's difficult when cash-strapped to make premium appointments but sometimes a cleanup and streamlined business model is the way forward. I really feel for Australian rugby at the moment.

If it's any consolation, we had a dreaded spell before and during Straeuli's era so we know what it's like to have lean years. From 2016 onwards we have more quota issues coming our way so don't despair. Things go this way for most. England sucked for a good while as well and they're only coming out of it now.

NZ may be the only nation immune to these kinds of things because the sport is treated as a national priority over there.

 

[emuarse]

Oh thatttttts what you were doing, and here I was thinking you were serious about a Wallabies win

Same bait....same Kiwi, when will they ever learn

 

[Train Without a Station]

If any of this holds any truth then the board needs not only look at the coach and those under him, but also at those who are sitting directly above him.

I've actually been putting together an article for the roar about Australian coaches.

McKenzie has coached 9 seasons of Super Rugby. 5 with the Waratahs, and 4 with the Reds.

In that time he has had a team finish outside the Top 6 twice, and outside the finals three times in total.

He coached the Waratahs to 8th, 2nd and runner up, 3rd, 13th and then 2nd and runner up again. He coached the Reds to 5th in 2010, 1st and Champions in 2011, 6th (on points) in 2012, 5th (on points and overall) in 2013.

His biggest failure has been Stade Francais where he was sacked after one season, for finishing 4th in the Top 14 and failing to get past the group stages in the Heinekin Cup. This was drop in success for that team.

McKenzie may very well be the problem, but his coaching record across 2 teams suggests he can coach.

 

[Dctarget]

Do share when you've finished it, I'd love to have a read.

 

[Sword of Justice]

It's difficult when cash-strapped to make premium appointments but sometimes a cleanup and streamlined business model is the way forward. I really feel for Australian rugby at the moment.

Unfortunately that would be cleaning up the mess that was 'cleaned up' only earlier this year. The ARU massively culled it's staffing and I'm not sure how they would move forward from there.

But back onto the match! Extremely excited, I've just got a ticket and I now have been filled with hopeless optimism and I'm tipping Wobs by 10 - unsurprisingly shooting out to a two try lead in the first 20 seconds of the match and then picking up another opportunistic try as soon as Quade comes onto the field to hold on after a strong comeback by the AIGs.

 

[Ulrich]

I've actually been putting together an article for the roar about Australian coaches.

McKenzie has coached 9 seasons of Super Rugby. 5 with the Waratahs, and 4 with the Reds.

In that time he has had a team finish outside the Top 6 twice, and outside the finals three times in total.

He coached the Waratahs to 8th, 2nd and runner up, 3rd, 13th and then 2nd and runner up again. He coached the Reds to 5th in 2010, 1st and Champions in 2011, 6th (on points) in 2012, 5th (on points and overall) in 2013.

His biggest failure has been Stade Francais where he was sacked after one season, for finishing 4th in the Top 14 and failing to get past the group stages in the Heinekin Cup. This was drop in success for that team.

McKenzie may very well be the problem, but his coaching record across 2 teams suggests he can coach.

I'd like to have a read once you're done. A recent article on Stuff.co.nz (I blieve it was) mentioned how it's the teachers that make the best coaches.

Some teachers who had variable degrees of success as national coaches:

• Bob Dwyer - World Cup Winner [EDIT: Seems he was a teacher, yes]
• Eddie Jones - World Cup Finalist / Winner as Assistant [EDIT: Verified that he was indeed a teacher at some point - Wikipedia]
• Graham Henry - World Cup Winner [EDIT: Yes, we knew that]
• Jake White - World Cup Winner. [EDIT: Yes, we knew that]

That is if the article I read recently is correct in stating Bob and Eddie were also teachers at some point, I have no idea if that is correct, but if it is it makes for an interesting case as well.

 

[Biffo]

i don't think Bob Dwyer was a teacher.
his profession was engineer - mechanical? - so i doubt he would have been teaching.

there are many other teachers who succeeded as high-level rugby coaches
for example, i think two coaches of each of Ireland and Scotland had been
teachers

i posted a list of teacher/rugby coaches on GAGR 5-6 years ago.
other posters added and quite a list was prepared.
i am too lazy to sift through my old posts to find it.

 

[Biffo]

Wallabies by 19
fact
here
first
only

 

[Hugh Jarse]

i don't think Bob Dwyer was a teacher.
his profession was engineer - mechanical? - so i doubt he would have been teaching.

there are many other teachers who succeeded as high-level rugby coaches
for example, i think two coaches of each of Ireland and Scotland had been
teachers

i posted a list of teacher/rugby coaches on GAGR 5-6 years ago.
other posters added and quite a list was prepared.
i am too lazy to sift through my old posts to find it.

This is probably the post you are looking for, @Biffo.
"he" being Anthony (Totality Tony) McGahan.

Thanks. I see he is yet another school teacher turned professional coach. I can recall that these include Eddie Jones, Graham Henry, Eddie O'Sullivan, Jake White, Frank Haddin, Todd Louden, Laurie Fisher and Andy Robinson. There are several others I can't recall right now.

 

[Biffo]

This is probably the post you are looking for, @Biffo.
"he" being Anthony (Totality Tony) McGahan.

thank you, Mate.

i am not sure how to judge the indicated change in my powers of recall since i wrote that post years back.

i was trying then to get some discussion going and sustained on the matter of coaches.
i even suggested we have a coaches' league and continually revise the pecking order (btw, do coaches peck?).
there wasn't much interest.

 

[Biffo]

i suspect that the teacher/coach thing was a historical accident.
when rugby went professional, the blokes in the best position to become coaches were teachers.
the world has changed.

looking at the coaches and their assistants now, it appears to me that most are ex players who have done or are doing "apprenticeships" in province and "supra province" rugby before graduating to national roles.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Forget about lasers to distract goalkickers on Saturday night, they've taken distracting players to a new level in the Balkans. Taking theatrics to a new level, the World Game gives you this effort:

What can we dangle beneath a drone to distract The Darkness?

 

[Wilson]

i suspect that the teacher/coach thing was a historical accident.
when rugby went professional, the blokes in the best position to become coaches were teachers.
the world has changed.

looking at the coaches and their assistants now, it appears to me that most are ex players who have done or are doing "apprenticeships" in province and "supra province" rugby before graduating to national roles.

Yeah, with the game having such strong links to private schools you'd think there's a lot of early career crossover between teaching and coaching. Would be interesting if you could compare ability as a teacher to ability as a coach, but I've no idea where you'd get the data.

 

[Biffo]

Forget about lasers to distract goalkickers on Saturday night, they've taken distracting players to a new level in the Balkans. Taking theatrics to a new level, the World Game gives you this effort:

What can we dangle beneath a drone to distract The Darkness?

a nice ewe
fush 'n' chups
some widges

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Rugby Arms Race in private schools extends beyond just players. Some private schools now have full time rugby staff with zero teaching workload or duties, or teaching qualifications beyond Coaching accreditation.

In the good old days, The MIC Rugby, and the 1st XV coaches were primarily career professionally qualified Teachers, who did rugby coaching on the side.

 

[Ulrich]

i suspect that the teacher/coach thing was a historical accident.
when rugby went professional, the blokes in the best position to become coaches were teachers.
the world has changed.

looking at the coaches and their assistants now, it appears to me that most are ex players who have done or are doing "apprenticeships" in province and "supra province" rugby before graduating to national roles.

Entirely possible that it was what it was although Henry and White are fairly recent examples. They are probably the remnants of a legacy though so you may be correct. Coaching has 3 certification levels and the rest is up to experience and your performance based on the opportunities given so it's not unlikely for a teacher in today's world to become a coach.

I'm also of the opinion that former players don't necessarily make good coaches. No former player has ever coached a country to world cup glory. Wonder how former players have faired in other sports as national coaches, particularly football?

More on the game:

Word is the All Blacks had some rough sessions under Hansen in the lead-up with a focus on backline moves and passing accuracy. These guys really don't take a loss lightly and waste no time in fixing any apparent flaws.

The last game was a bit of analytical chess. The All Blacks rushed up to 12 and 13 anticipating Bok-bashing in the midfield only for the Boks to skip pass those players on several occasions leaving the wider channels open for attack. Flaws not to be repeated again by the men in black. It becomes ever harder to get the better of them.

 

[SaderCheif]

Forget about lasers to distract goalkickers on Saturday night, they've taken distracting players to a new level in the Balkans. Taking theatrics to a new level, the World Game gives you this effort:

What can we dangle beneath a drone to distract The Darkness?

a nice ewe
fush 'n' chups
some widges

A trophy of some sort? Oh wait. They already have all of them...