JRugby2
Bob Loudon (25)
Maybe a better way to say this is we don't have enough paddocks for our cattle.
Wallabies 2024
- Thread starter rugbyAU
- Start date
Wallaby Man
Nev Cottrell (35)
Might not be popular to some but I actually think our talent identification is okay and what goes on at school boy level is close to as good as it is anywhere in the world.
Considering the Aus school boys team regularly doesn’t pick certain players because they are already 100% committed to league we have been fairly competitive in that space over the last decade, far more competitive than at senior level. We haven’t had the results at u20, but have been very competitive at that level as well, if it wasn’t for a wash out or some shocking refereeing in recent years (against Ireland 2yrs ago) could of been 3 tournaments in a row as semi finalists. Something our senior team could only dream of.
So in my mind something is terribly wrong once these guys come into the system proper and not developing anymore. We have a lot of guys that clearly have potential and are good enough at 20, the Petaia’s of the world but just don’t get any better and remain the same quality when they should becoming world class.
I always think back to Rob Kearney’s statement that he was shocked at the level of resources and the quality of the facilities in Aus but the quality of the athlete is great.
One thing that worries me is that we have players that go overseas and apparently get better. Some of these guys come back and are genuinely great for 12months. Kellaway, White, etc. all came back and were on fire for 12 months, then slowly revert back to the mean. Is this something that our systems are causing?
Considering the Aus school boys team regularly doesn’t pick certain players because they are already 100% committed to league we have been fairly competitive in that space over the last decade, far more competitive than at senior level. We haven’t had the results at u20, but have been very competitive at that level as well, if it wasn’t for a wash out or some shocking refereeing in recent years (against Ireland 2yrs ago) could of been 3 tournaments in a row as semi finalists. Something our senior team could only dream of.
So in my mind something is terribly wrong once these guys come into the system proper and not developing anymore. We have a lot of guys that clearly have potential and are good enough at 20, the Petaia’s of the world but just don’t get any better and remain the same quality when they should becoming world class.
I always think back to Rob Kearney’s statement that he was shocked at the level of resources and the quality of the facilities in Aus but the quality of the athlete is great.
One thing that worries me is that we have players that go overseas and apparently get better. Some of these guys come back and are genuinely great for 12months. Kellaway, White, etc. all came back and were on fire for 12 months, then slowly revert back to the mean. Is this something that our systems are causing?
Froggy
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Saying all these players go overseas and become world beaters because of their great systems just doesn't stand scrutiny. Yes, some players go overseas and become better players, some stay here and become better players, the majority of players improve as they move through their career until the age of about 28 (older for some forwards).
There are also numerous Australian players that go overseas and you never hear of them again, but we keep getting Mac Hanson thrown in our faces.
How many centres are the Tahs meant to pay top dollar? Last year they had Foketi, Perese, Tuipolotu, Walton and Wilson on their books, and if they paid them all top dollar you'd be complaining they couldn't manage their finances. I'm sure the Brumbies were in an identical situation with Hanson.
There are also numerous Australian players that go overseas and you never hear of them again, but we keep getting Mac Hanson thrown in our faces.
How many centres are the Tahs meant to pay top dollar? Last year they had Foketi, Perese, Tuipolotu, Walton and Wilson on their books, and if they paid them all top dollar you'd be complaining they couldn't manage their finances. I'm sure the Brumbies were in an identical situation with Hanson.
JRugby2
Bob Loudon (25)
Another element in this is that we Australia being a country of migrants will have this issue pop up quite regularly, whether it be from the Pacific or Europe - you really don't need to look too far to find someone who has parents or Grandparents that we're born OS.
I would guess that 50% of the teams named Tuesday would probably also qualify for another nation.
This is one of the only arguments we have for domestic only competition - providing more opportunity to more players.
I would guess that 50% of the teams named Tuesday would probably also qualify for another nation.
This is one of the only arguments we have for domestic only competition - providing more opportunity to more players.
Ignoto
Peter Sullivan (51)
Both can be true.
We are in a situation where our current "first" selection of players are not good enough at both an international level and also a domestic level against teams from other countries.
We are also in a situation where the limited teams, money and games means you can't have emerging and developing players (who at this stage of their career would not play better than the incumbent) being given priority over players that can "perform" right now.
In super rugby, we do not have long enough seasons where you can give the "youth" a crack.
At international level, given its our cash cow, we need results immediately so having too many inexperienced and playings being selected on potential could exacerbate the issues i.e. reduction in sponsorship, tv rights etc.
We're seeing the Reds attempt to address this opportunity aspect by going on tours in Japan and now the UK outside of the Super season. I could imagine if all Australian clubs had been doing this for the past 3-5 seasons, young and emerging players would have somewhere of 4-15 matches of experience of games against professionals. While that may not seem like a crazy amount of games, every professional game helps with retention and development.
LeCheese
Greg Davis (50)
You absolutely can. If the skill gradient between, for lack of a better term, 'Tier 1' and 'Tier 2' is reasonably flat, but overall skill / performance level is still below that of other nations, you have exactly that situation.
Tomthumb
Peter Fenwicke (45)
But guys like Tuipolotu and Hansen are starring for other, Better nations
Tomthumb
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Such as?
Should they have been Super Rugby starters before they left ahead of current Wallabies though?
That's largely what it boils down to.
I don't think it's really worthwhile looking at whether they would have more opportunity at a different side. It's become very clear with most of these departures that they aren't seeking another opportunity at a different Australian side as a preference to taking up the overseas contract.
stillmissit
Peter Johnson (47)
Or we only pick poor cattle because the paddocks ain't that great, plus there are too many cattle wanting to graze in them.
So smarter people than you see good stock you don't and buy it whilst you go broke.
eastman
John Solomon (38)
It’s a combination of teams being risk averse in selection due to the limited number of games, limited spots (only five professional franchises in the country), and limited finances.
We don’t have the ability to resign every player with potential, and teams will default to players they know and are currently performing.
Moese did not demonstrate he was a top 5 (or even 10) centre in the country, and we couldn’t match what Scotland were willing to pay.
We don’t have the ability to resign every player with potential, and teams will default to players they know and are currently performing.
Moese did not demonstrate he was a top 5 (or even 10) centre in the country, and we couldn’t match what Scotland were willing to pay.
stillmissit
Peter Johnson (47)
The key factor here is the development processes appear to be crap!
Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Four.
eastman
John Solomon (38)
How’s Curtis Browning going?
JRugby2
Bob Loudon (25)
Beats doing actual work on a weekday
Tomthumb
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Haha to be fair he was given plenty of chances in Aus
Tomthumb
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Have we? Ireland only have 4 pro teams, Wales only have 4, Scotland only have 2, Italy only have 2
Yet none of them seem to have the problem of players they don’t really rate becoming world class somewhere else