Wallabies 2024

[Wallaby Man]

That’s exactly what Will Skelton could do, that’s my point.

I don’t think it’s this simple. Overseas clubs when in negotiations with SA and Arg players know they are clearly in line to be selected by their national team when in negotiations, Aus players are not because of the nation unions stance. I can’t quite remember the exact detail but over the years Mitchell and Guits were talking about coming back to play for Aus, they mentioned when they did they had to pay their own way, the national union didn’t pay them an appearance fee and when one of them got injured playing for Aus because playing for the country wasn’t included in insurance under their contract they weren’t paid for months on end as their club refused payment and the insurance refused to pay as they were injured outside their contracted workplace. Now some conditions might of changed since then such as an appearance fee etc. but i couldn’t see it dramatically changing. It’s a very technical situation.

 

[Tomthumb]

I don’t think it’s this simple. Overseas clubs when in negotiations with SA and Arg players know they are clearly in line to be selected by their national team when in negotiations, Aus players are not because of the nation unions stance. I can’t quite remember the exact detail but over the years Mitchell and Guits were talking about coming back to play for Aus, they mentioned when they did they had to pay their own way, the national union didn’t pay them an appearance fee and when one of them got injured playing for Aus because playing for the country wasn’t included in insurance under their contract they weren’t paid for months on end as their club refused payment and the insurance refused to pay as they were injured outside their contracted workplace. Now some conditions might of changed since then such as an appearance fee etc. but i couldn’t see it dramatically changing. It’s a very technical situation.

Will Skelton just signed a new contract. If he really wanted to he would have added all this into his contract

He’s regarded as one of the best players in Europe. I think he’d have the cache to negotiate being able to play for the Wallabies

So yes, it is very much that simple

 

[KOB1987]

I've only just read the Doran article, it doesn't actually say much does it? I was under the impression that if he were to come back into the fold for the RC it would only be for the Argentina tour anyway, and not for the Bledisloe games. So in that context it makes more sense to continue developing the local talent and then bring Willy into the system for the end of year tour when he is more accessible, assuming he is 100% about it.

At least we have some solid work in progress in the row, our bigger issues are at 10 and 12 in my opinion. I have no idea what the answer is for either, but longer term I think some out of the square thinking might be required for #12, such as Wright or Petaia, or maybe the Tahs have that jersey in mind for Sua'ali'i. #10 I think we just have to work out who our safest option is and stick with him. If JS ends up with the kicking duties it at least takes that requirement out of the selection criteria.

 

[Pfitzy]

just read the Doran article, it doesn't actually say much does it?

On brand.

 

[Strewthcobber]

A bit of Giteau and Mitchell research on the train this morning.

Toulon wouldn't pay Git's salary while at WC or TRC. With him being on $1.5m a year, and match payments only at $10k, it meant the players lost a significant amount of money to play Wallabies. One article said $250k for Giteau in 2015

So this might be the answer as to why Skelton faces financial losses playing for Australia.

Mitchell was a bit different. He had a long term injury that was being covered by the French workplace comp scheme. The arguments were then around who would be liable if he reinjured it on Wallaby duty; Toulon didn't want to be responsible.

 

[Adam84]

I understand match payments are only $10k, but surely RA also has to pay part of the player's salary, even legally they need to be paid some kind of minimum wage outside of bonuses. That way, it also slightly reduces animosity about selection(or lack of) in the team.

Doesn't need to be the equivalent of what clubs pay them, but just pick an arbitrary figure of $750k for international players and pay them a pro-rata'd salary for the period they're in the Wallabies camp. That 'salary', including match payments, comes close to what they're earning anyway.

 

[PhilClinton]

That's where I think you're wrong. The Wallabies only need one of Lolesio or Donaldson in the team between now and Lions. Lynagh is the next in line but we need to have another option being developed in case (as is probable) that whomever of NL or BD make the side now fails to rise to the level we need for the Lions

HMP was outplayed by Chance Oates in the QPR semi final yesterday.

He isn't ready to be playing against international sides.

 

[rugbyAU]

Squad for Argentina announced tomorrow

 

[Derpus]

Isnt it just a symptom of societal culture in general, its not cool to be a proud Aussie. You meet a saffa, even with all the rubbish that goes on in their country they are proud to be south african and bring their culture with them, loud and proud, regardless of rugby.

Then when it comes to rugby, Aussie supporters are some of the least passionate, we sit there and clap polietly. Wouldnt be suprised if it rubs off on the players.

You are going with the wrong people...

 

[Brumby Runner]

Squad for Argentina announced tomorrow

More timely than some of his other squad/team announcements. Good to see.

 

[SouthernX]

HMP was outplayed by Chance Oates in the QPR semi final yesterday.

He isn't ready to be playing against international sides.

this is a logic I don’t really agree with Phil.

looking thru the lense of one game should not be your evaluation on HMP.

he has looked the goods playing qpr most of season and with his limited opportunities in super rugby.

if Schmidt has no qualms about selecting Josh Nassir who is backup to Matt Fesseler then 1B HMP can be in the wallabies side next to 1A Tom Lynagh.

plus I am of logic there’s no argument for any player not to be in a squad in first year of a new coach or the caveat that it’s a World Cup year

 

[SouthernX]

Squad for Argentina announced tomorrow

going to give Smokey predictions of JOC (James O'Connor) and Ryan smith having good enough club rugby campaigns to come into equation for squad tomorrow

 

[Ignoto]

going to give Smokey predictions of JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) and Ryan smith having good enough club rugby campaigns to come into equation for squad tomorrow

Hell yeah, lets tank Brothers Finals!!!

 

[Strewthcobber]

I understand match payments are only $10k, but surely RA also has to pay part of the player's salary, even legally they need to be paid some kind of minimum wage outside of bonuses. That way, it also slightly reduces animosity about selection(or lack of) in the team.

Doesn't need to be the equivalent of what clubs pay them, but just pick an arbitrary figure of $750k for international players and pay them a pro-rata'd salary for the period they're in the Wallabies camp. That 'salary', including match payments, comes close to what they're earning anyway.

If you did that it woould start adding up pretty quickly for players playing all tests

Say 3 weeks for July tests, 8 weeks for TRC and 4 weeks for end of year = 15 weeks or nearly a third of the salary pro-ratered. For the guys on th ebig bucks that's a pretty significant amount.

I honestly don't know what the answer is. The players go overseas for money, and it's clearly pretty likely that they would just retire for international rugby if RA play hardball with eligibility. They can't afford to pay much on top of exisitng match fees.

SA probably has the only approach - make it clear that you will be consistently selected f you go OS, actually select them, and if players retire then so be it. Anyone keen to play internationally will avoid France and go to Japan (like SA players have done)

 

[Proud Pig]

The discussion around Australian crowds and the lack of support for Australian players is an interesting one. I was not born in Australia but did grow up here and am a strong Wallabies supporter. However, I am very much in the minority of the people that I attend Rugby with. Most of them are ex-pat English and Irish and they have all lived in Australia for at least 20 plus years but when it comes to sport they are all very much anyone but Australia. There is a real push for the Ex-pat crowd to be anti-Australia in everything not just sport and this has proven to be particularly true of Rugby crowds given the percentage of the crowd that are not Australian born. I have noticed this to be particularly true of the English speaking migrants i.e. UK, NZ and South African not so much the non-English speaking. I don't know why this is the case but it certainly appears very prevalent here.

 

[Dctarget]

The discussion around Australian crowds and the lack of support for Australian players is an interesting one. I was not born in Australia but did grow up here and am a strong Wallabies supporter. However, I am very much in the minority of the people that I attend Rugby with. Most of them are ex-pat English and Irish and they have all lived in Australia for at least 20 plus years but when it comes to sport they are all very much anyone but Australia. There is a real push for the Ex-pat crowd to be anti-Australia in everything not just sport and this has proven to be particularly true of Rugby crowds given the percentage of the crowd that are not Australian born. I have noticed this to be particularly true of the English speaking migrants i.e. UK, NZ and South African not so much the non-English speaking. I don't know why this is the case but it certainly appears very prevalent here.

I find it a bit different, most will always support their home country over Australia but then Australia over everyone else.

 

[Joe Blow]

Add in for this squad

Tupou, Swain, McReight and Wright(if fit), BPA, Petaia(if on board), Leota and maybe another 12?

 

[PhilClinton]

Hell yeah, lets tank Brothers Finals!!!

Would be funny if Harry Wilson and Flook dropped, just in time for Brothers Grandy!

 

[Strewthcobber]

Doran reported yesterday that neither McReight or Wright are likely to be fit, Paisami is also in doubt, but most of the other players who have been involved against SA should be good to go if selected.

 

[Adam84]

If you did that it woould start adding up pretty quickly for players playing all tests

Say 3 weeks for July tests, 8 weeks for TRC and 4 weeks for end of year = 15 weeks or nearly a third of the salary pro-ratered. For the guys on th ebig bucks that's a pretty significant amount.

I honestly don't know what the answer is. The players go overseas for money, and it's clearly pretty likely that they would just retire for international rugby if RA play hardball with eligibility. They can't afford to pay much on top of exisitng match fees.

SA probably has the only approach - make it clear that you will be consistently selected f you go OS, actually select them, and if players retire then so be it. Anyone keen to play internationally will avoid France and go to Japan (like SA players have done)

I said RA could compensate them at an arbitary salary level which is still respectable, and gave the figure of $750k for that.

Even pro-rata for a full 15 weeks(doubtful any player would commit for all that), it's a comparatively insignificant sum of money in the broader scheme of things.