Wallabies 2023

[whitefalcon]

Exclusive: Rennie set for Japan deal in latest twist to post-RWC coaching drama

Three months ago Dave Rennie said he would take matters into his own hands if he was not offered an extension deal by Rugby…

www.theroar.com.au

Don’t really blame him tbh - warranted or not, there’s a target on his back, and with Rugby Australia being noncommittal on his future, I can understand the desire for certainty.

Could also explain Wisemantel walking away?

 

[Dan54]

If true about Rennie brings up a few questions, are some coaches good at say super level (or equivilant) and not quite right for step up where I think selecting etc becomes a huge issue? (I always thought Deans was a good coach but below par selector/man manager)
Does this have anything to do with Jones being available?
And should RA continue down the NZ coach road or go for best Aussie coach they can find? All very interesting discussions over next while I guessing.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

And should Rugby Australia continue down the NZ coach road or go for best Aussie coach they can find? All very interesting discussions over next while I guessing.

Best coach available please. If that happens to be an Aussie, then even better. I feel like Larkham would want the job, but I'm not convinced on him yet. I'm also afraid that RA would love the cheaper option.

If the Tahs have a good year people will want Darren Coleman but I also think I'd love to see him build a beast where he is then move onto it.

 

[stillmissit]

By the time he debuted for England, Marcus Smith had played about 80 professional games.

When he debuted for the Wallabies, Lolesio had about a third of that.

Carter Gordon has played even less.

If you ever wonder why young players in Australia don't mature properly, it's pretty simple - they don't play enough games and as such get rushed on to the big stage prematurely.

I agree partly. Our history is littered with young players who were brought into the Wallabies early for example Campese 19 and Giteau 20. If we believe that we are short on talent then watching and developing talent should be front and centre of our focus.
Some made it and some didn't I would argue that you need a level of self-confidence that many young men have and a few can prove it. We need to be pushing them and not putting them in cotton wool until they have played - 80 games.

 

[stillmissit]

Exclusive: Rennie set for Japan deal in latest twist to post-RWC coaching drama

Three months ago Dave Rennie said he would take matters into his own hands if he was not offered an extension deal by Rugby…

www.theroar.com.au

Don’t really blame him tbh - warranted or not, there’s a target on his back, and with Rugby Australia being noncommittal on his future, I can understand the desire for certainty.

It is impossible to rank Rennie's performance due to injuries and unavailability. Apart from that he seems to have the guys up for a difficult contest that both the French and Ireland tests showed. He has brought in most players with some ability and got something out of them.
I wish him well and do not look on his time here as a failure regardless of what the stats say. In fact, the players he was forced to bring in could help our cause and not hinder it.

 

[PhilClinton]

If anything, that article clearly supports the fact that no one, coaches, media or rugby organisations really know what is going on with movement.

A couple of months ago it was reported that Eddie Jones had essentially signed a lifetime deal with rugby USA, now that barely gets a mention and he's apparently front runner for Wallabies and Japan.

It also shows how much money is around and uncertainty any movement within the Japanese One League creates. Everyone knows the smart money, particularly for southern hemisphere-based players and coaches, is in Japan. Of course, if there a number of vacancies in that competition, the top coaches are going to be sounded out.

These 'scoops' are nothing but clickbait unless they are supported by actual quotes from the people involved.

 

[Derpus]

By the time he debuted for England, Marcus Smith had played about 80 professional games.

When he debuted for the Wallabies, Lolesio had about a third of that.

Carter Gordon has played even less.

If you ever wonder why young players in Australia don't mature properly, it's pretty simple - they don't play enough games and as such get rushed on to the big stage prematurely.

Because we dont have a professional domestic comp. Ridiculous we've chained ourselves to the sinking ship that is Super Rugby

 

[stillmissit]

Because we dont have a professional domestic comp. Ridiculous we've chained ourselves to the sinking ship that is Super Rugby

interesting Derpus. What would you suggest an alternative could be?

 

[LeCheese]

interesting Derpus. What would you suggest an alternative could be?

 

[Derpus]

interesting Derpus. What would you suggest an alternative could be?

See 'Where to for Super Rugby?' thread.

Try not to tear your eyeballs out.

 

[Doritos Day]

I agree partly. Our history is littered with young players who were brought into the Wallabies early for example Campese 19 and Giteau 20. If we believe that we are short on talent then watching and developing talent should be front and centre of our focus.
Some made it and some didn't I would argue that you need a level of self-confidence that many young men have and a few can prove it. We need to be pushing them and not putting them in cotton wool until they have played - 80 games.

Which (good) tier 1 countries are consistently "developing" talent at the test level?

The NH clubs are playing more games than ever and as such the majority of their talent is close to plug and play when they debut - of course there are smokeys etc. and young players are getting a go, normally eased into smaller roles or in less important games, but on the whole it's a much more sustainable approach to building a national team.

Meanwhile in Australia our clubs are doing the opposite, and now have the additional downside of less variety in opposition (RSA)

The entire reason the Wallabies used to be amongst the best is because the Australian set-up adapted to professionalism a lot quicker and more effectively than up north - they've not only caught up but overtaken us now and results at test level reflect that.

I wouldn't say European players are kept in "cotton wool" either. Marcus Smith is only 23. Playing 80 games in England takes like 3 years whereas here it's closer to 6.

 

[stillmissit]

Which (good) tier 1 countries are consistently "developing" talent at the test level?

The NH clubs are playing more games than ever and as such the majority of their talent is close to plug and play when they debut - of course there are smokeys etc. and young players are getting a go, normally eased into smaller roles or in less important games, but on the whole it's a much more sustainable approach to building a national team.

Meanwhile in Australia our clubs are doing the opposite, and now have the additional downside of less variety in opposition (RSA)

The entire reason the Wallabies used to be amongst the best is because the Australian set-up adapted to professionalism a lot quicker and more effectively than up north - they've not only caught up but overtaken us now and results at test level reflect that.

I wouldn't say European players are kept in "cotton wool" either. Marcus Smith is only 23. Playing 80 games in England takes like 3 years whereas here it's closer to 6.

Doritos, I wasn't suggesting NH teams keep them in cotton but that there are several punters here (and some coaches I suspect) who think we need to wait until a player has all the runs on the board and I am suggesting we don't have that luxury.
BTW I agree with most of your post.

 

[stillmissit]

He didn't get a crack at all..

A sniff at a crack ?

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

From a Reuters piece reprinted on Newshub:

"I'm not an assistant coach, mate," [Eddie Jones] told [The Guardian]. "I'm not interested in that sort of job."

"It's not going to happen," Rennie said, later adding: "It's not going to happen before the World Cup.

"We've had no discussions around changes to the coaching group ... what happens beyond 2023 is another matter."

 

[stillmissit]

I suspect all the changes that are going to happen will be over by end of March so that coaches can focus on other things.

From a Reuters piece reprinted on Newshub:

"I'm not an assistant coach, mate," [Eddie Jones] told [The Guardian]. "I'm not interested in that sort of job."

"It's not going to happen," Rennie said, later adding: "It's not going to happen before the World Cup.

"We've had no discussions around changes to the coaching group ... what happens beyond 2023 is another matter."

 

[Brumby Runner]

He didn't get a crack at all..

Not that he didn't give it a crack when he got a crack Qwerty? Didn't he start in the game against Wales?

 

[rodha]

I don't think bringing back Jones would be the right move. He's an old-school coach from a different generation & his methods have obviously become outdated & unsuitable for the current generation of players.

Also, Jones turns 63 this month, most coaches start to decline once they approach their late 50's. Eddie's clearly past it now.

On the other hand, Razor is 47, he is entering his prime as a coach, he could easily coach the Wallabies for 2 world cup cycles.

 

[Brumby Runner]

If Rennie takes up another appointment somewhere else or isn't offered an extension by RA beyond 2023, then I think Jason Gilmore would have to come in for serious consideration as Wallabies' coach in 2024. Isn't he the current Australia A coach? He is also very familiar with the players who will likely make up a large part of the squad in 2024, having coached the Junior Wallabies in 2018/9, their most successful period for a long time.

I reckon all of Larkham, Coleman and Cron will need to show success at Super level over the next two or three years to be in the hunt for Wallabies' coach. I don't wish to see Eddie Jones back in charge as I reckon that would ruin our future for years to come. I think I am among many friends on that one. Unlike others here, I am not wrapped in the idea of Scott Robertson taking over. I can't shake the feeling that it would look like Robbie Deans V2.

Personally, I haven't lost confidence in Dave Rennie. He has had a woeful time with injuries and non-availability of key players and I am thinking 2024, maybe even this year at the RWC, could see the re-emegance of the Wallabies as a top rung side in the world.

 

[PhilClinton]

I don't think bringing back Jones would be the right move. He's an old-school coach from a different generation & his methods are fast becoming outdated & unsuitable for the current generation of players.

Also, Jones turns 63 this month, most coaches start to decline once they approach their late 50's. Eddie's clearly past it now.

On the other hand, Razor is 47, he is entering his prime as a coach, he could easily coach the Wallabies for 2 world cup cycles.

Whilst I don't disagree with the notion of coaches becoming outdated, is their age really that big a factor?

I've been around plenty of coaches in their early 40s who are on a decline for various reasons. I've also seen a number of older coaches (50+) find their passion for coaching again when they have the right group of players around them and support network.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

I suspect all the changes that are going to happen will be over by end of March so that coaches can focus on other things.

Would be interesting to know whether Rennie's* comments were made before or after Wisemantel quit.

Edit: *I'm assuming Jones's were made after.