Wallabies 2023

[upthereds#!]

I don't think flexibility between lock and back row or between sides of the scrum means much anymore.

33 man squads mean you can basically take two full packs plus an extra front row, and only 1 back will have to double up on the short break (presuming you take 3 halfbacks) which is now 5 days at minimum.

I don't actually think you guys have less than 6 days between games, and you have either 12 or 13 days off between the last pool game and the QFs. If you wanted to you could grind your best 23 into the ground for the first 3 games then more or less put your starting XV for the QF in cotton wool for over 2 weeks

2 x 15s plus an extra Hooker, Prop and Halfback.

Sometimes the 4th lock/6th backrow is a single utility man, like Mostert so a 6th prop can be taken.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

If Rennie takes up another appointment somewhere else or isn't offered an extension by Rugby Australia beyond 2023, then I think Jason Gilmore would have to come in for serious consideration as Wallabies' coach in 2024. Isn't he the current Australia A coach? He is also very familiar with the players who will likely make up a large part of the squad in 2024, having coached the Junior Wallabies in 2018/9, their most successful period for a long time.

I reckon all of Larkham, Coleman and Cron will need to show success at Super level over the next two or three years to be in the hunt for Wallabies' coach. I don't wish to see Eddie Jones back in charge as I reckon that would ruin our future for years to come. I think I am among many friends on that one. Unlike others here, I am not wrapped in the idea of Scott Robertson taking over. I can't shake the feeling that it would look like Robbie Deans V2.

Personally, I haven't lost confidence in Dave Rennie. He has had a woeful time with injuries and non-availability of key players and I am thinking 2024, maybe even this year at the RWC, could see the re-emegance of the Wallabies as a top rung side in the world.

Agree with pretty much all of that BR. I think Gilmore has done an excellent job with each of his postings so far. I don't want EJ (Eddie Jones) in a head coaching job in OZ again. DoR maybe, but not head coach.

As far as Rennie is concerned, I'm still on board but thinking that post 2023 we'll need to look elsewhere. We've got a good group of young players who I believe will develop into an excellent Wallaby squad and Rennie has intro'd plenty of them to test footy, either by necessity or design.

 

[rodha]

I've been around plenty of coaches in their early 40s who are on a decline for various reasons. I've also seen a number of older coaches (50+) find their passion for coaching again when they have the right group of players around them and support network.

Coaches tend to achieve best success in their early 50's or late 40's, it's that crucial period where they've accumulated enough life/coaching experiences and still remain pretty sharp health wise. It's usually all downhill from their late 50's/early 60's, as one would expect.

 

[stillmissit]

Whilst I don't disagree with the notion of coaches becoming outdated, is their age really that big a factor?

I've been around plenty of coaches in their early 40s who are on a decline for various reasons. I've also seen a number of older coaches (50+) find their passion for coachAssuming ing again when they have the right group of players around them and support network.

Agree. Assuming we are NOT talking about Jones.

 

[stillmissit]

Coaches tend to achieve best success in their early 50's or late 40's, it's that crucial period where they've accumulated enough life/coaching experiences and still remain pretty sharp health wise. It's usually all downhill from their late 50's/early 60's, as one would expect.

Bloody long time to get a decent drink at the fountain>>>>

 

[PhilClinton]

Was perusing LinkedIn on the commute home and noticed Stephen Moore commented on an article about sports coaching in Australia.

It said he believes development of our coaches is the biggest issue currently in Australian rugby.

Nothing more than a comment, but interesting that someone highly regarded in our game believes that is the biggest issue, considering there are a number of them.

 

[Ignoto]

Coaches tend to achieve best success in their early 50's or late 40's, it's that crucial period where they've accumulated enough life/coaching experiences and still remain pretty sharp health wise. It's usually all downhill from their late 50's/early 60's, as one would expect.

Where the hell are you pulling this from?

Graeme Henry was 65 when he won the WC with the All Blacks.

Looking at other sports, some of the best football managers like Alex Ferguson, Carlo Ancelotti and Aussie Guus Hiddick were/are well in to their 60's and still winning.

Many coaches as they age unfortunately get stuck in old ways, however, those that succeed adapt and change how they coach ie become more of a manager/overseer rather than hands on.

 

[rodha]

This is offered as a generic statement and in that vein - I don't think it is right. What doesn't work is an unbalanced back 5. Double 7s is certainly not naturally balanced but depending on the available talent it can be. Ditto double 6/triple second rowers.

I recall that one of the biggest criticisms under Michael Cheika was his selection of small unbalanced loose forward trio's.

Ironically, Robbie Deans faced a fair bit of criticism during his last few seasons for his 'bigger is better' selections as he wanted to play grinding defensive rugby.

The Wallabies backrow for the Lions Series even without Pocock - Mowen (113kg), Hooper (100kg), Palu (120kg).

Ewen McKenzie by and large continued this approach, notably dropping Liam Gill because of his size for the South Africa tour.

Then laughably one of Cheika's first actions as coach was playing McMahon (100kg) at 8 alongside Hooper (100kg) for the Autumn tests. He then moved Pocock to 8 the following year, then after Fardy left he tried a skinny & underdeveloped Hanigan at 6 - still with Hooper and Pocock in tandem - making the most unbalanced Wallabies backrow in recent memory. That's not to mention Cheika's selection of young undersized props like an underweight Tom Robertson further de-powering the forward pack.

Thankfully Rennie has shifted Wallabies the other direction again... Physicality and dominating the collisions is imperative today.

 

[gel]

Where the hell are you pulling this from?

Graeme Henry was 65 when he won the WC with the All Blacks.

Looking at other sports, some of the best football managers like Alex Ferguson, Carlo Ancelotti and Aussie Guus Hiddick were/are well in to their 60's and still winning.

Many coaches as they age unfortunately get stuck in old ways, however, those that succeed adapt and change how they coach ie become more of a manager/overseer rather than hands on.

Totally agree with the age thing from Ignoto - plenty of top line coaches across a wide range of sports have excelled into their 60s, including Eddie Jones with his own winningest winning for England in their winningest period.

BUT

92-3 is still unforgivable and he can just stay fucked off, thank you very much.

 

[PhilClinton]

Not to keep harping on about this age thing, but I’ll harp once more.

Coaching an international rugby team is probably one of the few sports where you can be based at home 70% of the year, yet still coach at the top level. That aspect alone lessens the burden that age inflicts on us.

Compare it to someone like Gregg Popovich in the NBA, currently 73yrs old and still head coach of the Spurs and involved with the men’s national program. He’s on the road nearly 10 months a year and going strong (though likely to retire soon).

 

[Marce]

I have a dream

 

[stillmissit]

I don't care how old they are or anything else apart from whether they are the best for the job. The niggly bit is who is making the choice of who's best for the job?

 

[stillmissit]

Is Hamish McLennan a total DH? according to this article, he never spoke to Rennie about bringing Jones in for RWC before blabbing to he media.

Dave Rennie rules out Eddie Jones could make Wallabies return

Wallabies coach Dave Rennie has categorically ruled out the prospect of working alongside Eddie Jones for the upcoming Rugby World Cup.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Adam84]

Is Hamish McLennan a total DH? according to this article, he never spoke to Rennie about bringing Jones in for RWC before blabbing to he media.

Dave Rennie rules out Eddie Jones could make Wallabies return

Wallabies coach Dave Rennie has categorically ruled out the prospect of working alongside Eddie Jones for the upcoming Rugby World Cup.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Who cares if he spoke to Rennie or not, the blokes carrying a 38% success rate as head coach and has sacked/lost two quality assistant coaches in 12 months a year out from the RWC. Under his regime he has had more serious injuries in training and game time then any Wallabies coach in recent history, he is kidding himself if he thinks he is above support.

Whilst i‘m not a fan of Eddie returning as HC, it would be remiss for RA not to scope his interest/availability for post RWC.

 

[Dctarget]

Surely you bring EJ (Eddie Jones) in for a few sessions purely for how to dismantle England. We're almost guaranteed to play them at the RWC, Eddie will know all the soft shoulders and player deficiencies.

 

[rodha]

Where the hell are you pulling this from?

Graeme Henry was 65 when he won the WC with the All Blacks.

Looking at other sports, some of the best football managers like Alex Ferguson, Carlo Ancelotti and Aussie Guus Hiddick were/are well in to their 60's and still winning.

Many coaches as they age unfortunately get stuck in old ways, however, those that succeed adapt and change how they coach ie become more of a manager/overseer rather than hands on.

It often used to be the case, but it's becoming a thing of the past, it appears (at least what I've noticed with elite rugby) the most effective coaches getting are younger, the trend is moving towards individuals who are closer to the player's age - see Rassie Erasmus 2019, Scott Robertson, Steve Borthwick, Nick Evans, Alex Sanderson, Tony Brown, Leon McDonald, Ronan O'Gara, etc..

People who aren't out of touch with the current playing generation & game trends like E.Jones, Foster, Hansen, Woodward etc.. had become. Of course, it also helps that coaches from the latest generation are more technologically adept so are able to utilize data and analysis more effectively. Obviously that's not always the case, but it seems the natural progression, as with earlier exposure to tech, comes greater access to & sharing of a wider range of information = a greater accumulated knowledge by a younger age. I'm not trying to be ageist, I'm just stating the facts. Young people of today have a much greater knowledge base than previous generations did.

 

[Ignoto]

Rodha, I think you're getting too caught up about age. What you're describing is a 'Manager' style of Coach i.e. someone who throws an arm around the shoulder of the players. There's plenty of commentary out there describing the players of today need more of this type of 'coach' than what previous generations did of one of authoritative.

Simply discarding a coach because they hit 60 mean you lose a huge amount of Rugby IP and experience. It's why you see in Football, a 'Director of Football' and a 'Manager' (similar to what RA went with with Johnson and Chieka).

These young coaches are essential to have in the team, but, because of their inexperience, they need to be surrounded by others who have been through the time toughs and good times. I was hoping the backroom staff Rennie had would help him in, but we've seen even extremely talented and experienced backroom staff can't always save the day.

 

[stillmissit]

Rodha, I think you're getting too caught up about age. What you're describing is a 'Manager' style of Coach i.e. someone who throws an arm around the shoulder of the players. There's plenty of commentary out there describing the players of today need more of this type of 'coach' than what previous generations did of one of authoritative.

Simply discarding a coach because they hit 60 mean you lose a huge amount of Rugby IP and experience. It's why you see in Football, a 'Director of Football' and a 'Manager' (similar to what Rugby Australia went with with Johnson and Chieka).

These young coaches are essential to have in the team, but, because of their inexperience, they need to be surrounded by others who have been through the time toughs and good times. I was hoping the backroom staff Rennie had would help him in, but we've seen even extremely talented and experienced backroom staff can't always save the day.

Agree with your comment but it doesn't hold water in the corporate world.

 

[stillmissit]

Who cares if he spoke to Rennie or not, the blokes carrying a 38% success rate as head coach and has sacked/lost two quality assistant coaches in 12 months a year out from the RWC. Under his regime he has had more serious injuries in training and game time then any Wallabies coach in recent history, he is kidding himself if he thinks he is above support.

Whilst i‘m not a fan of Eddie returning as HC, it would be remiss for Rugby Australia not to scope his interest/availability for post RWC.

I do, if you are the kind of manager who goes behind employees' backs looking for someone to work with you and doesn't even mention it to you. Good luck in your management career - Not...

 

[Derpus]

I have a dream

I think Rennie has made some key mistakes which means he should not be retained.

But if you think hiring a succesful Crusaders coach is going to result in anything but very minor improvements then we've been there, done that.

Dude will be going from a perfect rugby machine to a systemically broken and failing sporting union.