Wallabies 2023
- Thread starter RugbyReg
- Start date
Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
I don't think flexibility between lock and back row or between sides of the scrum means much anymore.
33 man squads mean you can basically take two full packs plus an extra front row, and only 1 back will have to double up on the short break (presuming you take 3 halfbacks) which is now 5 days at minimum.
I don't actually think you guys have less than 6 days between games, and you have either 12 or 13 days off between the last pool game and the QFs. If you wanted to you could grind your best 23 into the ground for the first 3 games then more or less put your starting XV for the QF in cotton wool for over 2 weeks.
33 man squads mean you can basically take two full packs plus an extra front row, and only 1 back will have to double up on the short break (presuming you take 3 halfbacks) which is now 5 days at minimum.
I don't actually think you guys have less than 6 days between games, and you have either 12 or 13 days off between the last pool game and the QFs. If you wanted to you could grind your best 23 into the ground for the first 3 games then more or less put your starting XV for the QF in cotton wool for over 2 weeks.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Holloway, Frost?
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Has Frost played at 6?
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
If they were playing in a must-win game (because there will no doubt be rotation throughout the season).
4. Holloway
5. Seu
6. Hanigan
7. Hooper
8. Gleeson
19. Swinton with Hanigan going to lock
20. Harris
I don't see how Gamble fits in with Hooper playing. I'm sure they might play together at some stage and he could make it on a 6-2 but he's not in my best 23, Tahs already lightweight at lock, you can't get away with Gamble and Hooper at 6/7 with Hanigan/Holloway lock.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
At super level - yes. He’s definitely quick enough and would appear to me to be agile enough.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
Interesting. I don’t really know anything about Seu. Will be interested how it all pans out.
stillmissit
Peter Johnson (47)
Firstly, he will be 22 in 12 days time. In one year he will be 23 with little if any rep opportunity and an age when most rugby players with talent have shown up and had a couple of rep runs.
I suggest that we put focus on those few with talent and encourage them, to my knowledge he has not had a run in any senior side over where he is at ATM.
So if you and I can see he has talent and we have very few good 10's who are tall, fast with good hands, good D and boot, what encouragement is he getting not to leave at the end of this season? Maybe the chance of a run in Aust B in 2024 and then at 23 years old we will see if he has the talent to step higher, at the best he will be 24/5 before he gets a start.
He has played 14 Super Rugby games and started 7 of them. Is this a sign of a talented youngster that any focus is being put on? I think if I was him I'd be gone in 2024 and I'd take my talented brother with me. I believe a coach outside of Australia will ID his talent and take him.
BTW Lolesio was 21 when he debuted at fly-half, the first new wallaby fly-half in 7 years! Why are you not applying your arguments against him?
stillmissit
Peter Johnson (47)
It strikes me that we are constantly looking for Jesus and as soon as they prove they are not - we want to discard them.
Is Rennie selecting squads on media reports or what talent he sees?
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
If he is good enough to make it this year, that’s fine. I would’ve thought 23-24 was about the norm for a test player getting their first run. We have debutted a lot of kids over the last 3 years but there are some pretty obvious reasons for that. Anyhow, I get that he isn’t too young - but he really only has half a year experience as an consistent starter under his belt and from what I saw of him last year I didn’t think he was ready. You obviously do. Very happy to be proven wrong and, if I am wrong, I hope they pick him.
Lolesio is a really interesting case and, it is looking increasingly likely, won’t turn out ideally for either him out Australian rugby.
Of I recall correctly he made his debut when O’Connor was injured and the choice was literally him and Will Harrison. There was literally no one else. Quade was training with the Wallaby group but no-one at that time considered him an option. Both Lolesio & Harrison were 21 and both had completed their rookie year in Super Rugby. Lolesio was MOM in the Super Rugby AU final that the Brumbies won. It was hard to argue he wasn’t the person who deserved to be next in line. And he performed reasonably but, ultimately, his lack of experience prompted Rennie to reignite QC (Quade Cooper)’s career.
Since then Lolesio hasn’t really kicked on. He remains (IMO) a solid option and he has already banked a decent amount of experience including tests against NZ, France & England. He’s had some very good moments but I don’t think anyone would suggest he has looked assured at test level. Anecdotally it seems like White & Simone run the ship at the Brumbies and Lolesio is just a cog in the system, not a director (but that is my view formed from afar so maybe I’m wrong).
Rennie’s continued selection of Foley and then selection of Donaldson suggests to me he doesn’t believe Lolesio is yet up to it, but he also doesnt want to cast aside the investment already made in the young man.
To answer your point directly Lolesio status as a test player is a deserved honour and his selection at the time was justified (IMO) but wonder if his early elevation will do more harm to him in the longer run. Hopefully I’m wrong. I’d hate to see the mistake repeated with Gordon. I do think it is entirely reasonable to expect he could be our test 10 in 2024, regardless of whether or not he plays test rugby this year.
Lolesio is a really interesting case and, it is looking increasingly likely, won’t turn out ideally for either him out Australian rugby.
Of I recall correctly he made his debut when O’Connor was injured and the choice was literally him and Will Harrison. There was literally no one else. Quade was training with the Wallaby group but no-one at that time considered him an option. Both Lolesio & Harrison were 21 and both had completed their rookie year in Super Rugby. Lolesio was MOM in the Super Rugby AU final that the Brumbies won. It was hard to argue he wasn’t the person who deserved to be next in line. And he performed reasonably but, ultimately, his lack of experience prompted Rennie to reignite QC (Quade Cooper)’s career.
Since then Lolesio hasn’t really kicked on. He remains (IMO) a solid option and he has already banked a decent amount of experience including tests against NZ, France & England. He’s had some very good moments but I don’t think anyone would suggest he has looked assured at test level. Anecdotally it seems like White & Simone run the ship at the Brumbies and Lolesio is just a cog in the system, not a director (but that is my view formed from afar so maybe I’m wrong).
Rennie’s continued selection of Foley and then selection of Donaldson suggests to me he doesn’t believe Lolesio is yet up to it, but he also doesnt want to cast aside the investment already made in the young man.
To answer your point directly Lolesio status as a test player is a deserved honour and his selection at the time was justified (IMO) but wonder if his early elevation will do more harm to him in the longer run. Hopefully I’m wrong. I’d hate to see the mistake repeated with Gordon. I do think it is entirely reasonable to expect he could be our test 10 in 2024, regardless of whether or not he plays test rugby this year.
stillmissit
Peter Johnson (47)
The only test that counts is if they can step up and picking those with headroom is a lost art in Australia since Bob Dwyer's time. Mamy coaches try to time their run to coincide with someone else doing the hard work of bringing in talent and then they can step in and make a name for themselves. The exception is Darren Coleman who along with Cron could make a great coaching team for Australia.
I think we are not moving forward at a speed that outpaces our slow demise, it is as if all will be OK all we need to do is carry on as we have.
The whole thing needs a shake-up and a focus on winning, bugger this 3 year plan garbage. We have been let down by many players and coaches, in terms of talent development, putting the effort into a Wallaby career and a Super Rugby focus that is not about developing as many Wallabies as possible but how to keep their little world safe.
There is no safety in rugby coaching. Take Scott Robinson, a 48 year old coach who many here and in NZ are saying is too young and inexperienced. Ditto Coleman! We are too conservative and need to be more wound up and focused on success and not on keeping a job and making sure all is watertight before we make a move. We need stratagems of war not planning a peaceful Saturday outing to watch some amateur rugby.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
I’d agree with that. And, for the record, I’d have preferred the persisted with him then keep rolling out Foley - but there is obviously reasons they didn’t. I’m happy enough they gave Donaldson a crack too though. I’m not sure he is actually the next most likely to succeed but, like Lolesio was 2 yrs ago, I think he was most deserving. Lolesio has been decent. I’m just not convinced he has the tools to be a top flight 10.
stillmissit
Peter Johnson (47)
LeCheese
Greg Davis (50)
Exclusive: Rennie set for Japan deal in latest twist to post-RWC coaching drama
Three months ago Dave Rennie said he would take matters into his own hands if he was not offered an extension deal by Rugby…
www.theroar.com.au
Don’t really blame him tbh - warranted or not, there’s a target on his back, and with RA being noncommittal on his future, I can understand the desire for certainty.
Doritos Day
Johnnie Wallace (23)
By the time he debuted for England, Marcus Smith had played about 80 professional games.
When he debuted for the Wallabies, Lolesio had about a third of that.
Carter Gordon has played even less.
If you ever wonder why young players in Australia don't mature properly, it's pretty simple - they don't play enough games and as such get rushed on to the big stage prematurely.
When he debuted for the Wallabies, Lolesio had about a third of that.
Carter Gordon has played even less.
If you ever wonder why young players in Australia don't mature properly, it's pretty simple - they don't play enough games and as such get rushed on to the big stage prematurely.
Doritos Day
Johnnie Wallace (23)
If Rugby Australia are already pigeonholing themselves into an Australian coach liked by Queenslanders (i.e. no Robertson or Jones) that's pretty concerning.Exclusive: Rennie set for Japan deal in latest twist to post-RWC coaching drama
Three months ago Dave Rennie said he would take matters into his own hands if he was not offered an extension deal by Rugby…www.theroar.com.au
Don’t really blame him tbh - warranted or not, there’s a target on his back, and with Rugby Australia being noncommittal on his future, I can understand the desire for certainty.
Do they want to win games or not? It may not necessarily be one of them but already closing off premium coaching options is a recipe for disaster.