Wallabies 2012 Championship Squad

[Scotty]

Samo made some impact when he came on in the last few weeks both with the ball and in defense. He can't play more than 40 but he still does have something that a lot of others can't give. Not that I expect him to feature in match day 22s without a few extra injuries though.

 

[TOCC]

Yes but before he was injured he was ahead of him. For a good month Samo was running around in Premier Grade. And yes Quirk plays 8

Quirk plays 8 at premier grade level, until he puts some more weight on he won't be playing that position at super rugby level and definitely won't be considered for that position at test level..

 

[tigerland12]

Quirk plays 8 at premier grade level, until he puts some more weight on he won't be playing that position at super rugby level and definitely won't be considered for that position at test level..

Read what I said again, I wasnt saying anything about Quirk. My point was that Samo isn't good enough to be in the Reds 22 when everyone is fully fit.

Fotu Auelua would of been the better selection.

 

[Viking]

Samo is a recent wallaby and is familiar with the set-up. Since it is a TRAINING SQUAD it makes sense for him to be there. Much easier having an experienced wallaby there to help the starting squad, rather then fresh players who needs to learn all the calls etc. and most likely won't make the Rugby Championship squad anyway.

Thats my theory. Dont think we will be seeing Samo in a wallaby jersey again. Completley agree that Fotu would def be ahead on selection.

 

[en_force_er]

Samo is a recent wallaby and is familiar with the set-up. Since it is a TRAINING SQUAD it makes sense for him to be there. Much easier having an experienced wallaby there to help the starting squad, rather then fresh players who needs to learn all the calls etc. and most likely won't make the Rugby Championship squad anyway.

Thats my theory. Dont think we will be seeing Samo in a wallaby jersey again. Completley agree that Fotu would def be ahead on selection.

Better the devil you know.

 

[TOCC]

Meanwhile, eight Reds _ Rob Simmons, James Slipper, Radike Samo, Cooper, Ben Tapuai, James Hanson, Jake Schatz and Liam Gill _ have been added to the Wallabies 35-man training squad, which will have a three-day camp in Sydney, starting tomorrow.

Will Genia, Digby Ioane, Higginbotham and Anthony Fainga'a have been rested because they will be heavily involved in the upcoming Rugby Championship, while Mike Harris, Luke Morahan and Dom Shipperley were omitted.

Saia Fainga'a (elbow) and Ben Lucas (ankle) were not considered because of injuries they sustained against the Sharks.

I would say Shipperly could count himself unlucky and Radike Samo should count himself very lucky..

 

[emuarse]

To my thinking, the training camp is there to maintain fitness (not to get it), but just as importantly to have a number of fringe players ready to step up, and to be familiar with the wallabies moves.
The fringe players are also given motivation to maintain a high level of fitness on returning to club rugby, which doesn't give them the necessary level.

 

[Train Without a Station]

So has Anthony Fainga'a been completely discarded. I don't imagine he would have been rested due to limited playing time in the June tests and being out for a few games earlier in the year. Also is Mikey Mike Harris on the outer? Bit rough to go from starter, to bench match winner, to off the bench, to completely out of the squad.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think Mike Harris is a certainty to be added to the squad in the next week. I would say Ant Fainga'a is an almost certainty as well.

This is a training squad or what will become over 40 players. I can't see these guys missing out.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Perhaps for players like Jake Shatz and Liam Gill, who have played a lot of rugby over the year, they aren't being rested because they are simply being exposed to the squad set up, but won't be in the overrall squad, much like some of the other fringe players who won't be there. They are simply being brought in to the setup for a taste, and their rests will come in a weeks time or so, whilst Genia, Harris, Fainga'a and possibly a couple of other players from other provinces will come in.

Any thoughts on any players from the other 4 provinces that may also be brought in to the final squad? I'm sure there's a few more Waratahs we could bring in to bump up the numbers...

 

[Braveheart81]

There's the rest of the Reds: Genia, Higginbotham, Ant Fainga'a, Mike Harris, possibly Dom Shipperly and Saia Fainga'a depending on injury.

A bunch of injured players still to be added at various points. This includes Palmer, Kepu, Palu, and Beale.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Reds players and Brumbies players from earlier in the year benefited from ball going forward and a strong attacking system.

collectively they play better but individually other players may have stronger attributes that can't be displayed..

That's sort of what I was getting at TOCC, individually the players chosen may have stronger attributes, but if they cannot perform collectively, then what's the point?

 

[barbarian]

......... because that's how we pick the Wallabies?

When Larkham and Gregan (and the Wallabies) were in their prime, we didn't pick Kafer and Holbeck in the centres just to keep the combination together.

This notion that you must be in a successful Super team to be in the Wallabies flies in the face of decades of evidence, from here and overseas. It certainly helps, but should not be the be all and end all of selection as you seem to want to have it.
.

 

[Jiggles]

No, because you had Horan and Herbert as one of the best centre combinations in the world....

 

[barbarian]

True, but are Harris and Fainga'a on their level such that it is warranted to keep their 'combination' in Gold?

Let me expand on this. There is no evidence that either player is up to international standard. Fainga'a has been good in patches off the bench, but struggled to make an impact when played in the starting XV. Harris has looked OK off the bench but hasn't made enough impact to suggest he deserves a place in the starting side.

On the other hand Pat McCabe, Berrick Barnes and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) have all had standout games in Wallaby colours. All have shown they are up to international level.

Just because Harris and Fainga'a combine well for the Reds (a statement that is debatable in itself) should not mean they should be put in ahead of the aforementioned three players. The Reds backline may be the best in Australia (again a debatable statement) but not by so much that they could throw on Gold and be just as effective.

At the moment the centre pairing is not a strength for the Wallabies. McCabe, Barnes and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) aren't close to being World XV candidates. But I don't think we are so desperate for a combination that we throw in two inferior players just because they do OK in a half-decent provincial backline.
.

 

[tigerland12]

I wouldn't say Fainga'a just does OK for Queensland. Personally I think he is very underrated and his work often goes unoticed. We know his defensive abilities, but he attacks the ruck like an openside, and is often very affective at it. His attack has also improved (still not very great though, but better).

If we played Barnes or JOC (James O'Connor) at 12, Fainga'a would be my personal selection at 13.

 

[Jiggles]

On the flip side the players you name above have been tried for some time at test level, and collectively as a team they aren't up too it. Their performances wouldn't suggest they are any superior to the alternatives. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), for example hasn't performed for a good 24 months. Re-watching the June tests last week I think Barnes performances were very overrated as a 10, but he is still the best 12 option we have outside Cooper, and with Tapuai being injured. anyway the Backs aren't the issue, its the forwards and how they set up the game. Going by how they played in June I have no confidence that the lessons dished out at the RWC have been learnt.

For the record I believe Harris should be no where near the test team. I wouldn't pick him in a full strength Reds 22.

 

[Braveheart81]

As Baa Baa said, the recurring theme in the centres is that there are no candidates whose selection is a fait accompli.

Fainga'a like many of the other options is preferred by some and not by others. There's no basis to say that he should definitely be in our starting 15 or indeed the 22.

McCabe and Barnes would seem to make a pretty strong case for selection somewhere in the starting 15 on the basis that they are both incumbent players and played well against Wales. Whether Barnes remains at 10 or shifts out to 12 and McCabe to 13 is still very much up in the air.

If Cooper comes back it will be interesting to see if everyone shifts out one and Horne gets dropped or if Deans opts for as much consistency as possible and Barnes is the unlucky player to drop to the bench.

 

[barbarian]

On the flip side the players you name above have been tried for some time at test level, and collectively as a team they aren't up too it. Their performances wouldn't suggest they are any superior to the alternatives. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), for example hasn't performed for a good 24 months. Re-watching the June tests last week I think Barnes performances were very overrated as a 10, but he is still the best 12 option we have outside Cooper, and with Tapuai being injured. anyway the Backs aren't the issue, its the forwards and how they set up the game. Going by how they played in June I have no confidence that the lessons dished out at the RWC have been learnt.

For the record I believe Harris should be no where near the test team. I wouldn't pick him in a full strength Reds 22.

So what are we arguing about? I was only disputing Ruggo's earlier notion that the Wallaby backline should be the Reds 9, 10, 12, 13 and 14 plus Beale and JOC (James O'Connor).
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[Jiggles]

I think it would be daft to keep a McCabe-Horne combination with Cooper fit and at 10. I have never seen McCabe play 13 so I don't know if it would be wise to shift him there for a test against the Darkness.