Tri Nations Game 3 New Zealand v Australia - Saturday 6 August 2011 - 3N2011

[da_grubster]

If he is it must be a death bed conversion. I find it hard to recall any national coach, Wallabies or otherwise, who has shown less interest in "serious grunt".

There is an unusual degree of optimism in the lead up to this weekend's game, triggered it would appear by the seemingly inexhaustible euphoria emanating from Queensland in the wake of their Super 15 triumph. It is perhaps useful to take stock of the nature of the task confronting our team. First, let's look at the line ups:

All Blacks

1. Wyatt Crockett age 28 5 Tests
2. Keven Mealamu 32 83
3. Owen Franks 23 22
4. Brad Thorn 36 50
5. Ali Williams 30 63
6. Jerome Kaino 28 39
7. Richie McCaw 30 96
8. Kieran Read 25 30
9. Piri Weepu 27 46
10. Daniel Carter 29 81
11. Hosea Gear 27 6
12. Ma'a Nonu 29 58
13. Conrad Smith 29 47
14. Sitiveni Sivivatu 29 44
15. Mils Muliaina 30 96

16. Andrew Hore 32 52
17. Ben Franks 27 8
18. Samuel Whitelock 22 15
19. Adam Thomson 29 21
20. Andy Ellis 27 28
21. Colin Slade 23 3
22. Sonny Bill Williams 25 5

Wallabies

1. Sekope Kepu age 25 5 Tests
2. Stephen Moore 28 57
3. Ben Alexander 26 26
4. Rob Simmons 22 7
5. James Horwill 26 25
6. Rocky Elsom 28 66
7. David Pocock 23 31
8. Ben McCalman 23 11
9. Will Genia 23 24
10. Quade Cooper 23 24
11. Digby Ioane 26 13
12. Pat McCabe 23 3
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper 27 52
14. James O'Connor 21 28
15. Kurtley Beale 22 16

16. Saia Fainga'a 24 12
17. Pekahou Cowan 25 5
18. Dan Vickerman 32 56
19. Scott Higginbotham 25 30
20. Luke Burgess 27 32
21. Anthony Fainga'a 24 5
22. Lachie Turner 24 14

The average age of the All Blacks' run on side is 29 and on average they have played 51 Tests. The comparative figures for the Wallabies are 24 and 26.

The average age of the All Blacks' 22-man squad is 28 and on average they have played 41 Tests. The comparative figures for the Wallabies are 25 and 25.

Since the 26th of July 2009 the All Blacks have played 21 Tests, losing only one - by 2 points.

Finally we look at our record against the All Blacks in terms of winning and losing margins since the 2007 World Cup:

+15, -29, -4, -5, -6, -1, -27, -13, -21, -10, -1, +2.

Bruce, the wobs are getting closer no doubt and are always a formidible side in Australia (Although have lost to England and Samoa over the last year as well as NZ and SA, although SA last win was in 2009) but I found it interesting to look at their away record over the last 2 years (I haven't included the Hong Kong Bledisloe as this is a neutral venue).

Played 14 Won 6 Lost 7 Drawn 1 with losses to SA, NZ, Eng and Scotland.

The Wallabies do have exciting potential but it does show that due to their opposition, their inconsistency and their drop in performance away from home, this match on Saturday is a daunting prospect for them.

Of course they can win and if they do it will be massively against the odds and formbook

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

He said we should be in awe of the All Blacks. What a fruitcake.

That's not even close to what he said. All this talk of misconstruing words etc & you come up with this gem!

I read it as a challenge to the AB's team. I.e - these kids don't respect you, it's up to you to show them whose boss. Whether or not we can do that is probably a different thing.

 

[DPK]

I read it as a challenge to the AB's team. I.e - these kids don't respect you, it's up to you to show them whose boss. Whether or not we can do that is probably a different thing.

What's he basing this on?

 

[Scotty]

I think you are being far too generous to you front row, loosies and centres on defence. I suppose you could say wing defence to NZ if Coops is out there when Aus are on defence (As you have mentioned on your flyhalf analysis?).

fair enough, everyone can be accused of national bias, even me sometimes ;-)

Are you saying that I overrated the Aus front row and loosies, even though I rated NZ higher, or do you think I am a kiwi?

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

What's he basing this on?

Never said he was basing it on anything - I just think it's a challenge to his team. I've never seen an Aussie rugby team give an AB's team too much respect before & I'm not expecting to see it here.

In fact, I think that nothing has ever actually changed in the things said in the media by players & coaches. It's just that now NZ fans are a lot more fearful of the Aussie team - and thus are not so wllling to blow off the standard BS media crap that happens in build up week.

 

[drewprint]

My feelings on the weekend, courtesy of a late night photoshop session...

 

[Sully]

If he is it must be a death bed conversion. I find it hard to recall any national coach, Wallabies or otherwise, who has shown less interest in "serious grunt".

That's funny Bruce because I think we have had pretty much the best forward packs running around that we had available. You can argue about individual players as much as you like. I think we just haven't had the cattle lately. But you have a gripe with our coach and take every opportunity you see to have a go at him and his staff.
As for the "seemingly inexhaustible euphoria emanating from Queensland" I have to say it's still all good. Ah Queensland the sporting capital of Australia.

 

[cyclopath]

MajorleyRagerly - in what way would you say Aus rugby teams don't respect the ABs? I find this a curious concept. Presenting a confident front when playing them, which they seem to try to do publicly, is not disrespectful. I don't think the Wallabies fear them, which is a different thing. Saying they're crap and have done nothing would be disrespectful. I think Hansen is being his usual mischievous self in his throwaway line that the Wallabies probably don't respect them, and is simply trying to create niggle.

 

[Sully]

Of course he is trying to motivate his guys. What coach wouldn't. The Aussie are going up against the best and think they might have a chance. The Kiwis have been dominant for years. He wants to make certain they are up for it.

 

[DPK]

Never said he was basing it on anything - I just think it's a challenge to his team. I've never seen an Aussie rugby team give an AB's team too much respect before & I'm not expecting to see it here.

In fact, I think that nothing has ever actually changed in the things said in the media by players & coaches. It's just that now NZ fans are a lot more fearful of the Aussie team - and thus are not so wllling to blow off the standard BS media crap that happens in build up week.

Nah I wasn't insinuating you did, just wondering if there were any particular comments made by the Wallabies that had been highlighted by the NZ press that made out the Wallabies didn't respect NZ.

I wonder what else their using to gee themselves up. Something like: "Oi, Brad- I heard that James Horwill reckons you look too old to play anymore..." or "I heard Dave Pocock say he thinks he's better than you, Richie..."

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Bruce, the wobs are getting closer no doubt and are always a formidible side in Australia (Although have lost to England and Samoa over the last year as well as NZ and SA, although SA last win was in 2009) but I found it interesting to look at their away record over the last 2 years (I haven't included the Hong Kong Bledisloe as this is a neutral venue).

Played 14 Won 6 Lost 7 Drawn 1 with losses to SA, NZ, Eng and Scotland.

The Wallabies do have exciting potential but it does show that due to their opposition, their inconsistency and their drop in performance away from home, this match on Saturday is a daunting prospect for them.

Of course they can win and if they do it will be massively against the odds and formbook

And how does this away record compare with other Tier 1 nations? I would expect that the AB's would be way out in front, but that most of the other nations would be reasonably close.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

MajorleyRagerly - in what way would you say Aus rugby teams don't respect the ABs? I find this a curious concept. Presenting a confident front when playing them, which they seem to try to do publicly, is not disrespectful. I don't think the Wallabies fear them, which is a different thing. Saying they're crap and have done nothing would be disrespectful. I think Hansen is being his usual mischievous self in his throwaway line that the Wallabies probably don't respect them, and is simply trying to create niggle.

I never said disrespect - I said give too much respect. There is a huge difference! Too much respect means you go into the game a bit fearful of losing. Showing the right respect means you acknowledge the opposition team and it's strengths, but you also back yourself enough to win.

I can't see what all the fuss is about. If a NZ Aus cricket series was coming up and an aussie journo asked the aussie coach the same question and the answer was the same, I'd be stoked! I think it's laying down a challenge to his team.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

I wonder what else their using to gee themselves up. Something like: "Oi, Brad- I heard that James Horwill reckons you look too old to play anymore..." or "I heard Dave Pocock say he thinks he's better than you, Richie..."

I know your taking the piss, but in my opinion this is EXACTLY what Hansen was doing!

Sully... bang on.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

MR, I think you have it right: there is a difference between respect for your opponent and fear/arrogance. You always respect them, but fear shouldn't come into it. If you are good enough to play in a Tier 1 team, you should expect to go out on the paddock and win.

We should expect to beat the All Blacks. Otherwise, why do we play test footy?

 

[Utility Back]

My feelings on the weekend, courtesy of a late night photoshop session...

Should do another with sharpie and gits being told the tribe has spoken.

 

[crangs81]

Should do another with sharpie and gits being told the tribe has spoken.

Brilliant

 

[drewprint]

Haha good idea!

 

[da_grubster]

Are you saying that I overrated the Aus front row and loosies, even though I rated NZ higher, or do you think I am a kiwi?

you rated certain aspects even which I think is inaccurate. NZ front row around the park get througha tone of work and conversely more than the Australians front row, I also think our loose forward defence is better with the inclusion of Kaino and Read

 

[Lee Grant]

Now we are talking about what somebody talked about what another bloke said.

Good grief. Any real rugby matters to discuss?

 

[Blue]

Should do another with sharpie and gits being told the tribe has spoken.

Quality.