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Tri Nations Game 3 New Zealand v Australia - Saturday 6 August 2011 - 3N2011

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dave

Stan Wickham (3)
I'm interested in the Pocock as a leader thought.

Does being flippin' outstanding in your position automatically make you a leader?

Not necessarily but in Pocock's case he has been touted as a future wallaby captain. He was the nominated captain when Elsom went off last week against the Saffers so he's, in the very least, looked at by Deans as being in the leadership group. He's obviously an inspirational player with a kind of "follow me" approach.
 

Garryowen

Larry Dwyer (12)
The stats don't back that up though. Against Samoa he was right up there in tackles made, rucks hit and runs. His stats against the Boks were similar despite not touching the ball. Sharpe used to be a seagull, but not any more.

I agree that he has improved his work rate, however it's hard to hide from the fact that Sharpie has been a common denominator in many of the Wallabies' embarrassing forward displays over the years. The scrum performs suspiciously poorer with him on and he very rarely dominates in the tackle. Of the tackles he's made and the rucks he's hit these past couple games, I can't recall any of his involvements being dominant or influential (although I'm happy to concede I could have missed something here). On the otherhand, I thought Simmons was very impressive against the Boks and Vicks very impressive in his cameo against the Samoans. Horwill is a given, so leadership qualities aside (ignoring for a moment the fact that he presides over a team that loses many more tight games than they win), what does Sharpe offer over and above his competitors?
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
I agree that he has improved his work rate, however it's hard to hide from the fact that Sharpie has been a common denominator in many of the Wallabies' embarrassing forward displays over the years. The scrum performs suspiciously poorer with him on and he very rarely dominates in the tackle. Of the tackles he's made and the rucks he's hit these past couple games, I can't recall any of his involvements being dominant or influential (although I'm happy to concede I could have missed something here). On the otherhand, I thought Simmons was very impressive against the Boks and Vicks very impressive in his cameo against the Samoans. Horwill is a given, so leadership qualities aside (ignoring for a moment the fact that he presides over a team that loses many more tight games than they win), what does Sharpe offer over and above his competitors?

Better lineout caller than Simmons.

Presents a genuine ball carrying option which the other two don't really.

Way more match fitness than Vickerman, obviously.

Good communicator.

Quicker around the park than Vickerman, on par with Simmons.

Only q is his scrummaging but I'm not sure that not jsut made up by people who want to find fault.

Look I am a Sharpe fan. Time and time again when the Wallabies need someone to get up and make yards and make tackels he is a go to man. If Simmons is the man then Sharpe has to be on the bench.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Bang on blue. Especially about the scrum blame. What I've more closely noticed is our line-out go to shit when Sharpie's not there, which is probably a fairer correlation.

In a team with few ball carriers able to make the gain line, he's gold dust. Simmons certainly aint there in that department, yet.

I would think the smart thing right now would be to give the young lock international time, and to even get a look at how the QLD pair work together at this level, while giving the old guy a rest.
 

Garryowen

Larry Dwyer (12)
Better lineout caller than Simmons.

Presents a genuine ball carrying option which the other two don't really.

Way more match fitness than Vickerman, obviously.

Good communicator.

Quicker around the park than Vickerman, on par with Simmons.

Only q is his scrummaging but I'm not sure that not jsut made up by people who want to find fault.

Look I am a Sharpe fan. Time and time again when the Wallabies need someone to get up and make yards and make tackels he is a go to man. If Simmons is the man then Sharpe has to be on the bench.

Agree he's better at go forward. However, with runners like Moore / Nau, Elsom and Samo / Palu (hopefully!) on the pitch, then I'd much rather a tighter player in his place (Simmons / Vicks). That's not to suggest that I don't rate Sharpie I an absolute sense, but I don't think he's a starting lock anymore.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
The writing was on the wall for Sharpe a couple of years back. Circumstance through injury is the only reason he has made it this far. He is in carear best form but it comes as no suprise he is yesterday's hero in Deans's eyes.

Simmons is the future and he is delivering in the present. I am not fussed who gets the reserve lock spot out of Sharpe and Vickerman to be honest and if McCalman is retained in the 15, I would be happy to see Samo take it from both.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
The writing was on the wall for Sharpe a couple of years back. Circumstance through injury is the only reason he has made it this far. He is in carear best form but it comes as no suprise he is yesterday's hero in Deans's eyes.

Simmons is the future and he is delivering in the present. I am not fussed who gets the reserve lock spot out of Sharpe and Vickerman to be honest and if McCalman is retained in the 15, I would be happy to see Samo take it from both.

Seriously? Samo has had a cracker season (at 8), but I would rather have one of two locks with 150-odd Tests between them, than a guy who has not proven himself as an International lock. We don't even know if he has the requisite skills with regard to set piece.
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
Waugh and Sharpe were on the outer from day 1 under Deans and as you say only injury kept Sharpe in position
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
I say that option for diversity. There is only one way for a player to be proven an international lock. Simmons is hardly proven but is delivering. On the basis of proven I would go sharpe because what has not been proven is Vickerman's match fitness at international level. They might freshen things up in Durban to overcome the travel and we may get answers to some of our questions. Look on the bright side, so many options and they are keeping Mumm away from the 22.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I say that option for diversity. There is only one way for a player to be proven an international lock. Simmons is hardly proven but is delivering. On the basis of proven I would go sharpe because what has not been proven is Vickerman's match fitness at international level. They might freshen things up in Durban to overcome the travel and we may get answers to some of our questions. Look on the bright side, so many options and they are keeping Mumm away from the 22.
No problem with an "untried" Simmons - he plays there for Qld anyway. And he has played well in that position. This year is not really an experimental year for me. Samo is good 8 and maybe 6 cover.
 
C

chriscullen

Guest
Opening tab odds see nz at $1.25 aust $3.75. Wallabies getting 10.5 points start. Very generous that start I thought it would have been a lot smaller.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
It has been forgotten by most but in 2009 & 2010 Sharpe was our most successful forward in competing in one area the Wallabies were shown to be yet again woefully inadequate the maul. In yhe years mentipned Sharpe was extremely successful in defending against mauls, in fsct in the 2009 victory against the Boks their one successful maul in that game came when Sharpe was busy trying to find his teeth which had been knocked out and he consequently wasnt at thst lineout.

Contrary to the hardman supreme lock myth Vickermanhas not displayed this at any level.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Hardly "most" Gnostic, plenty are calling for Sharpe to keep his spot in the pecking order. And it was more about whether Simmons should replace him, rather than one of your bete noires being included as 3rd choice instead.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Hardly "most" Gnostic, plenty are calling for Sharpe to keep his spot in the pecking order. And it was more about whether Simmons should replace him, rather than one of your bete noires being included as 3rd choice instead.

Not that people are calling for him to be retained, but for this spevific skill, lineout captain, ball running were mentioned but the specific skill of counter maul Sharpe is the only forward in the Oz pack/squad who has demonstrated success. After last week England Bok 1st xv Italy , France, Scots would all be saying the Wallabies are really poor at mauls, guarenteed penalty or try from 15 out.
 

Jnor

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Opening tab odds see nz at $1.25 aust $3.75. Wallabies getting 10.5 points start. Very generous that start I thought it would have been a lot smaller.

Seems about right to me, while the heart always says there's a Wallabies victory there I think we're very likely to see a repeat of the 20-10 test last year. I think the Wobs have improved since then and supposedly broken their hoodoo but I think the ABs have improved too and are more than likely to be too strong again.

Glad that some of the Sharpe support has come back too, couldn't believe how quickly it evaporated. I'd have him and Horwill on starting with Vickerman on bench if he can get match fitness and Simmons if he's not (not that I don't rate Simmons, people!)
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Still think Sharpe and Horwill are our best combo. But Simmons will do me.
 
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