The Elsom Saga - Clubs withdrawing offers is all the rage...

[TSR]

Dark Shark,

this is a very good point (it is always easier to waste money when it is not your own). I must admit I am rather confused as to why no-one appears to want Elsom. Higgenbotham & Samo have had great years, but surely a fit Elsom is still the best 6 in Australia. The only team this makes any sense for is the Force who, due to Hodgson & Brown being so versatile have the best back row depth.

 

[Bowside]

I heard he once fought off a few blokes one night with his arm in a sling and a dislocated shoulder. Probably just a myth, but pretty damn impressive.

 

[naza]

Daz that has been implied and said outright quite a few times. It was also discussed at length regarding the axing of Friend a few months ago now. I have said outright I truly hope the Tahs do not sign him. I also have said Since the initial don't come monday from the Brumbies that the Tahs were his only real chance with my reasoning, this has since been proven to be the case. I fully expect the ARU to be "talking" to the Tahs and we will see a signing in the next few days, conviniently after the retirement of Waugh, who the ARU did not want in any fashion.

I forget how subtle this board can be.

Elsom's only achievement since he's returned to Aus has been to undermine and ultimately bone his Super rugby coach. He is poison. Why exactly would Super rugby franchises be lining up for a cancer ?

 

[Riptide]

That's true. Difference is that Matfield seems to get onto the park. For such a long career he has missed very few games.

For Elsom it's been big injuries for two years.

Question: does anyone know if he played through injury at Leinster and thsi is now the fallout from that?

I think he was injury free. He played 21 matches for Leinster (out of a total of 29 matches of which 18 were in the Magners and 9 were in the HEC as winners) and played a full 80 minutes in 19 of them (70 mins and 63 mins in the other two). I think he was MOtM is 13 of the games in which he played.

When injury free and in form, he and Juan Smith are the two best blind side flankers in the game.

 

[antipodean]

Was Sommerville only signed for one season? Any idea where he's off to next? I hope Hammett can convince him to come to the 'canes

Sommerville was signed for two seasons, but decided his body had had enough rugby.

Anyone have any idea why he seems so roundly loved in Ireland and no one cares much for him here? Perceptions that he cares only about the money that didn't translate up north cos, well, he was there for the money?

As a player I admire him, as a person, well I just don't know him but I feel I can and should comment as I too have experienced not being wanted by any of the Australian Super provinces.

Waratahs terminated negotiations when Elsom apparently wanted some say in who was running what. Story was on RH and an extract is probably back a few pages in this thread.

I find it simply incredible that the current Wallaby captain cannot find a team to play for. His only option is to chase scraps from the wooden spooners. In-fucking-credible.

What kind of millstone or baggage does Rocky have hanging around his neck? Ok, he isn't the greatest 6 in the world, but he has pedigree and class, no matter which way you look at it.

See above and below.

Elsom's only achievement since he's returned to Aus has been to undermine and ultimately bone his Super rugby coach. He is poison. Why exactly would Super rugby franchises be lining up for a cancer ?

Although Elsom had a standout season up North, he has been a shadow of the player he was for Leinster. I originally put this down to playing too long without a decent break from the game. But his petulance as a captain and his run of injuries lead me to believe that NSW could be paying good money for a poor outcome. As with others, I don't want any senior player associated with the Brumbies.

 

[Mica]

Greg is retiring....

SMH have suggested that Rocky could come to QLD...
If that were to happen, I hope they make it clear that he sits behind Genia and Horwill on the leadership stakes..

And Higgers and Samo in the position stakes

 

[Slim 293]

And Higgers and Samo in the position stakes

Elsom >>>>> Higgers

Even if Elsom might be a bastard...

 

[vidiot]

Elsom >>>>> Higgers

Even if Elsom might be a bastard...

I agree that a fit Elsom is still a considerably better player than Higgers . At least on the strength of the internationals last year it is obvious. The evidence to support that this year is more tenuous, but only because of Elsom's injuries rather than any superlative form of H.

I do think the Reds got considerably more value from Higgers this year than the Brumbies got from Elsom, and that is the equation the franchises face. Esp with the unknown of his effect on team harmony and dynamics.

 

[Ruggo]

Elsom vs Higgers is kind of a mute argument to an extent. It is more about how they intergrate into the team. Both players have traits that make them similar. Higgers must be doing what the Reds want out of him and his consistant selection is evident of that. Genia and Cooper have the Reds pack on a tight leash and it must be at their wish (under coaches instruction) that he plays wider. The Wallabies had a similar thing going with Elsom last year. The Reds have a pack that can accomodate a looser player and as much critisism as they get for their set piece, they are big engine players around the park. The Wallabies had a similar thing going with Elsom last year.

What would be a good exercise in analysis would be to look at how players blend into the style the team is playing. We get a bit carried away with player "x" is better than player "y" at times.

This has nothing to do with Rocky not having a home I know.

 

[mudskipper]

Elsom has created his own troubles... If he wanted Jake white would have made room for him a month ago or so. But he chose not to... He has offerd the Brumbies much since his arrival.

 

[Groucho]

Elsom vs Higgers is kind of a mute argument to an extent. It is more about how they intergrate into the team. Both players have traits that make them similar. Higgers must be doing what the Reds want out of him and his consistant selection is evident of that. Genia and Cooper have the Reds pack on a tight leash and it must be at their wish (under coaches instruction) that he plays wider. The Wallabies had a similar thing going with Elsom last year. The Reds have a pack that can accomodate a looser player and as much critisism as they get for their set piece, they are big engine players around the park. The Wallabies had a similar thing going with Elsom last year.

What would be a good exercise in analysis would be to look at how players blend into the style the team is playing. We get a bit carried away with player "x" is better than player "y" at times.

This has nothing to do with Rocky not having a home I know.

Excellent post.

 

[Gagger]

I'll feel more confident Higgers has choice to be able to play tight with a high work rate when I've actually seen him do it.

Rocky has proven ability to do both in the same match

 

[Langthorne]

Elsom vs Higgers is kind of a mute argument to an extent...... )

Far from it, obviously.

 

[Utility Back]

Alright i don't give a rats, id fucking love elsom at the reds.
Robinson, Rocky, Higgers @ 8, Samo on the bench love it, lets roll C#nts!

 

[Train Without a Station]

Sorry Utility Back but I'm going to disagree and say fuck Rocky. He had his chance to come to the Reds for 2010 and chose the Brumbies because he didn't feel his home franchise was good enough. We've finished on top of the ladder this year and all our loosies are on for 2012 so why would we want him?

 

[tigerland12]

Sorry Utility Back but I'm going to disagree and say fuck Rocky. He had his chance to come to the Reds for 2010 and chose the Brumbies because he didn't feel his home franchise was good enough. We've finished on top of the ladder this year and all our loosies are on for 2012 so why would we want him?

Not to mention the development of Gill, Shatz and Quirk. Added to the re-emergence of Samo and Robinson. I don't want him up here

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The Reds don't need Rocky, they've plenty of talent of their own. Neither do the Force for that matter. He should go to the Rebels or Tahs, if they're agreeable. Or go overseas I guess.

 

[Utility Back]

Sorry Utility Back but I'm going to disagree and say fuck Rocky. He had his chance to come to the Reds for 2010 and chose the Brumbies because he didn't feel his home franchise was good enough. We've finished on top of the ladder this year and all our loosies are on for 2012 so why would we want him?

Can completely understand that, but who DID think we were any good back than? i didnt (but i did love the 2009 give it a farkin go attitude thanks phil, got the ball rolling mate) and he initially showed interest, negotiations just fell through it happens. He wasnt the only player to turn us down, or leave for that matter.

As for current backrow, radike is playing the house down good on him but he is 35(?), and there are up and coming players, but rocky is the current wallaby captain, and still well above those blokes for mine, just like most of us would have liked JOC (James O'Connor) to come here, we have up and comers and established players where he might like to play.

Im not sure i buy the whole rocky's a cancer stuff, tahs loved him when he left, leinster loved him, australia was loving him when he came back until now with rumours being he's not liked at the brumbies (a mess of a club right now anyway which wasnt his fault as far as i know) and being injured all year. Thing is most of us aren't all too privy to whats really going on as rocky does his own management and doesnt talk through the media.

As ruggo said earlier it comes down to whether he could fit the game plan and club culture, Id like to think he could, but link has coached him before and would know better than any of us whether rockys worth it. But i also reckon he might think along the lines that showing rewards for those who are working off their arses now would be better for the team environment. Who knows, Link seems like a smart bloke, but i dont think rocky's some sort of control freak as it seems is general opinion.

Anyway, would i like to see rocky the player at reds, fuck yeah,
Rocky the character? Im not in a position to judge accurately, but(as this a forum for opinions and speculation) i dont think he got to wallaby captain by being a dick...but stranger things have happened.

Either way i love the fact that we've gotten to a place where his signing or not isnt the end of the world.
Thanks for your time. End Rant.

 

[Slim 293]

Im not sure i buy the whole rocky's a cancer stuff, tahs loved him when he left, leinster loved him, australia was loving him when he came back until now with rumours being he's not liked at the brumbies (a mess of a club right now anyway which wasnt his fault as far as i know) and being injured all year. Thing is most of us aren't all too privy to whats really going on as rocky does his own management and doesnt talk through the media.

Rocky was a major contributor to the mess...

 

[Utility Back]

One man who'd barely played one season wasn't coach or captain, whos leaving next year anyway is the cause of horrible performances he wasn't playing in, the sacking of a coach, and the mass exodus of miserable players? In that short a time?

What did he do? It just seems to me the rot had been setting in a while.