Sydney 7's: 3 - 5 February

[WorkingClassRugger]

^^^^^
Shit - sounds like a good example of cronyism to me. - that is, the reason why you'd give them a job

The Sevens program should be questioned altogether.

Perhaps it makes me a bit of a dick but if they are surplis tp Super Rugby needs and getting on a bit then let them explore opportunities elsewhere. We cannot afford to give out contracts to players as a form of super for their service. They are taking the spot of someone who could actually add more than just keeping their own.

 

[Braveheart81]

Perhaps it makes me a bit of a dick but if they are surplis tp Super Rugby needs and getting on a bit then let them explore opportunities elsewhere. We cannot afford to give out contracts to players as a form of super for their service. They are taking the spot of someone who could actually add more than just keeping their own.

There's a bit both ways. Their experience adds something to the training environment particularly this year (in terms of Kingston) as there are so many 18 and 19 year olds in their first season. Some experience is needed especially when half the older players are out injured.

Cutch made the Olympics squad last year and Kingston was only one spot away (after a couple of key players missed out through injury). It's not like they were also rans in that squad. They just probably wouldn't have been there if the 7s programme was run purely for the purpose of having the best 7s squad we possibly could both in the short and longer term.

 

[Norfolk & Chance]

This is an interesting discussion, however can someone please tell me where you can actually play 7's outside the world tour? I know of several young men who could possibly be really good 7's players but they never get an opportunity to see what they can do. They have huge engines in the 15 man game, have speed and work their guts out, but don't do the flashy, once a game stuff to be noticed which is what our talent scouts look for unfortunately. A Player like Anstee was identified in a open 7 trial process 2 years ago, there are players out there, there just isn't the opportunity to shine.

 

[I like to watch]

That isn't what I meant at all.

I meant that the ARU is happy to throw a bone to a couple of guys who have been good servants of Australian rugby to prolong their pro rugby careers a bit. They can hold their own in the 7s squad but are clearly not amongst the best players in the squad now nor have long term benefit. Cutch has been pretty involved in charity work and presumably both of them are good team guys. When those guys became surplus to their Super Rugby team's needs the ARU managed to find them a contract.

Who is this welfare officer from the ARU?
There would be 30 odd players who are culled from our super franchises each year. Just these 2 qualified for a bone from ARU?

The reality is, anyone with a pushy manager gets a trial down there, if Friend thinks they are good enough,they get a contract.
he is the master of his destiny, he's not clogging up his roster with 'welfare' contracts for discarded Super players at the request from ARU.

If he is signing older players, that aren't good enough now, it's not because he's received directions from above, it's because he has no clear strategy on the way forward.

I think the problem is that you assume, that he is a good coach, with a good plan for the future.
The reality is that he has failed dismally in every role he's had for at least a decade.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think the problem is that you assume, that he is a good coach, with a good plan for the future.
The reality is that he has failed dismally in every role he's had for at least a decade.

I don't assume that at all. I don't rate Friend either.

From an ARU perspective I'd guess that they don't really know what a better alternative is.

Part of the problem of having no real 7s infrastructure outside of the national setup is there isn't really a pathway for coaches.

Considering 7s is now the main game for women, it could potentially be the main place for specialist 7s coaches and we may see some improvement in the quality of coaches coming through from there.

We're both clearly speculating and have differing opinions on a bunch of these issues.

 

[Scrubber2050]

If we persevere with Sevens should it be that athletes are chosen and they are taught to play the hybrid game (didn't that happen with the girls)

The vast majority of Super players do not come through the sevens program. Some do, sure but I'd suggest that those players would have been selected anyway coming through the old academy Premier and Shute Shield pathways.

I would also be fairly sure that a player would take a Super contract over a Sevens one, each and every day of the week. I think that the more you play sevens the less valuable (or sought after) you can become to a Super franchise- simply because the game is totally different.

To me, an example of that is Fiji. Absolutely world class at Sevens but crap at the 15 man game at international level.

I just think they are 2 different sports (with some similarities) and a great sevens player or 15 man game player does necessarily translate to the other game

 

[barbarian]

Worth revisiting this article I wrote in the blog after Rio. The article itself doesn't really address what we're discussing here (though it's bloody well written), but some great comments down the bottom.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/australian-mens-7s-what-next/

 

[Dan54]

You right about most players would take super contract Scrubber, for the money if nothing else, had a couple of mated with boys in Aus 7s 4-5 years back ,and they reckoned the only money to be made out of it was cashing in the airpoints they got, because the pay was barely enough to survive on.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Horses for courses. There are quite a few Super Rugby players who will be off contract with little hope of securing another one each and every year. Any back rower with a decent turn of speed, or any outside back with a bit of size could conceivably turn their hand to 7s. It is the lure of European and Japanese contracts that will be the main competition for their talents. Some would no doubt be very successful at 7s in the twilight of their careers, while it is also a no brainer that younger blood will also continue to be used and developed. The coaches need to look for the best options available, not rule out any particular category of player on essentially arbitrary grounds.

The women's 7s did start out as a collection of talented athletes who were taught to play the 7s game, and that was very successful last year. I think we are seeing other sides in the world tour now improving and hence our women are finding it tougher to remain at the top. They seem to have defensive (tackling) issues which perhaps wouldn't be there had they had a solid background in rugby in earlier years. I don't think that approach is a good one for the men.

 

[I like to watch]

Not a lot has to change to improve things dramatically.
Recruitment has been poor, emphasis has been on cardio & top end speed, with the result that we have no one with the ability to put people into space.
Henry is a great example of everything that's wrong with the current setup.
Obviously he's a forum favourite, and he does know the way to the try line.
But in his current role he does a lot more wrong than right.
That's not his fault, it's the fool that keeps picking there.
Stannard is playing significantly more minutes this year than he ever has, out of necessity. Further proof that recruitment has been lop sided toward ball runners not ball players (yes, there have been a couple of ball players injured, but he also wasted 2 spots on players not up to it ATM)

 

[Braveheart81]

Clearly Lewis Holland would be a key playmaker if he was healthy.

The decision to release Allan Fa'alava'au seems a poor one given our shortage of playmakers currently.

 

[Hot Dog]

This is an interesting discussion, however can someone please tell me where you can actually play 7's outside the world tour? I know of several young men who could possibly be really good 7's players but they never get an opportunity to see what they can do. They have huge engines in the 15 man game, have speed and work their guts out, but don't do the flashy, once a game stuff to be noticed which is what our talent scouts look for unfortunately. A Player like Anstee was identified in a open 7 trial process 2 years ago, there are players out there, there just isn't the opportunity to shine.

If you have talent you will be noticed and picked up. There are talent scouts everywhere at all sports including stinkin player agents who get told

 

[p.Tah]

If you have talent you will be noticed and picked up. There are talent scouts everywhere at all sports including stinkin player agents who get told

At the local 7s tournaments?

 

[Hot Dog]

At the local 7s tournaments?

Yes including 7s. Including some of the big heads in union as well. If you're good enough, your name will be known around the place including talent scouts and coaches. A lot of coaches have their own talent scouts who will travel and videotape the games and send it back.

They have a criteria on what they look for, including height, weight, body composition, athleticism, speed, skills, defence, standout skills etc. Plus very importantly the player's character. Is he a good person, doesn't get into trouble, gets on well with his team mates, easy to coach etc

 

[Norfolk & Chance]

Yes including 7s. Including some of the big heads in union as well. If you're good enough, your name will be known around the place including talent scouts and coaches. A lot of coaches have their own talent scouts who will travel and videotape the games and send it back.

They have a criteria on what they look for, including height, weight, body composition, athleticism, speed, skills, defence, standout skills etc. Plus very importantly the player's character. Is he a good person, doesn't get into trouble, gets on well with his team mates, easy to coach etc

So where are these local 7's tournaments?

 

[Hot Dog]

So where are these local 7's tournaments?

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...yHKKhD4aSjS3MCtxg&sig2=WpSd3USO-kXZOdfKUNEqlQ

 

[Norfolk & Chance]

Yes including 7s. Including some of the big heads in union as well. If you're good enough, your name will be known around the place including talent scouts and coaches. A lot of coaches have their own talent scouts who will travel and videotape the games and send it back.

They have a criteria on what they look for, including height, weight, body composition, athleticism, speed, skills, defence, standout skills etc. Plus very importantly the player's character. Is he a good person, doesn't get into trouble, gets on well with his team mates, easy to coach etc

Yes there is but they go with a list that says look at this guy and maybe look at that guy and the poor player who works his arse off doesn't get looked at unless he does something spectacular and that maybe gets his name on the may be look at list for next time.
The ARU scouts in particular have this mind set, they only look at the players they are sent to look at, they completely forget that there are players out there that didn't go to a private school and train 5 days a week to become a very polished player. That does make them better it just makes them better coach, big and more structured. The junior gold program is a case in point, ARU scout and i quote of the winning team "These guys wouldn't beat a good GPS side, so there isn't any real point being here". So they are not talent scouts they are, pick the better players in the best sides, hence you get all ball runners. Henry is a case in point, at school, club and rep he ran out in the centres and crashed through everyone and then had speed to burn, looking extremely good. Obviously it is a little different now. Before i get shot down i'm not saying he can not play, because he can.

 

[Jagman]

This is an interesting discussion, however can someone please tell me where you can actually play 7's outside the world tour?

In 2017 not much but next year there will be the Commonwealth games and the Sevens RWC, the year after there will be Olympic qualifiers and the year after that... the olympics.

 

[Hot Dog]

Yes there is but they go with a list that says look at this guy and maybe look at that guy and the poor player who works his arse off doesn't get looked at unless he does something spectacular and that maybe gets his name on the may be look at list for next time.
The ARU scouts in particular have this mind set, they only look at the players they are sent to look at, they completely forget that there are players out there that didn't go to a private school and train 5 days a week to become a very polished player. That does make them better it just makes them better coach, big and more structured. The junior gold program is a case in point, ARU scout and i quote of the winning team "These guys wouldn't beat a good GPS side, so there isn't any real point being here". So they are not talent scouts they are, pick the better players in the best sides, hence you get all ball runners. Henry is a case in point, at school, club and rep he ran out in the centres and crashed through everyone and then had speed to burn, looking extremely good. Obviously it is a little different now. Before i get shot down i'm not saying he can not play, because he can.

You have to make Statements on the field in your game, you will be noticed. If you score the length of field try, do the biggest hit in defense on the biggest guy etc.

You have to do things extra special that will make the selectors wanting to know who is that ?? What's his name ?? Write his number down etc

 

[p.Tah]

Not a playmaker but it'd be nice to have this speed http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl...e/news-story/1342167dbfbd9deac75a17d3fbe41d0e