Sydney 7's: 3 - 5 February

[Norfolk & Chance]

You have to make Statements on the field in your game, you will be noticed. If you score the length of field try, do the biggest hit in defense on the biggest guy etc.

You have to do things extra special that will make the selectors wanting to know who is that ?? What's his name ?? Write his number down etc

With all respect and i understand what you are saying but I think that approach is good when you are selecting a team but not that great when you are a talent scout. IMO what happens off the ball is just as important as what happens on the ball. We all see what people can do on the ball, seeing what they do off the ball is harder as you don't watch the game you watch the player. As an example many years ago there was an interview with an all Black selector after a great game of rugby, he was asked what he thought of the game his reply was "I don't know I was here to watch one player and i just follow him with my camera to see what he does off the ball" Maybe that's the reason the Blacks finish games off better than any team in the world.
But to your point the player still had to be seen first.

 

[Braveheart81]

With all respect and i understand what you are saying but I think that approach is good when you are selecting a team but not that great when you are a talent scout. IMO what happens off the ball is just as important as what happens on the ball. We all see what people can do on the ball, seeing what they do off the ball is harder as you don't watch the game you watch the player. As an example many years ago there was an interview with an all Black selector after a great game of rugby, he was asked what he thought of the game his reply was "I don't know I was here to watch one player and i just follow him with my camera to see what he does off the ball" Maybe that's the reason the Blacks finish games off better than any team in the world.
But to your point the player still had to be seen first.

What is your suggestion regarding scouting for young talent?

It seems the JGC and particularly the under 20 Super Rugby matches leading to the national championship have dramatically improved the selection pathway and made it a more even playing field than it has been in the past.

It appears that less and less talent is slipping through the cracks and being plucked from obscurity at a later age.

 

[I like to watch]

What is your suggestion regarding scouting for young talent?

It seems the JGC and particularly the under 20 Super Rugby matches leading to the national championship have dramatically improved the selection pathway and made it a more even playing field than it has been in the past.

It appears that less and less talent is slipping through the cracks and being plucked from obscurity at a later age.

You are nominating 15's pathways as evidence of a good talent identification process for 7's.

I know I've mentioned it before,but the national dev team with 6 or 7 contracted players were humbled in Darwin recently.
They are quite simply picking the wrong guys.

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^
Pick athletes, teach them hybrid sevens rugby.

I also think we are on the wrong path only picking from 15's.

 

[Braveheart81]

You are nominating 15's pathways as evidence of a good talent identification process for 7's.

I know I've mentioned it before,but the national dev team with 6 or 7 contracted players were humbled in Darwin recently.
They are quite simply picking the wrong guys.

I wasn't really referring to 7s. I should have made that clear.

It does seem that the 7s pathways and selections have significant room for improvement. Maybe some more transparency around what a first year, base level 7s contract looks like and what it entails. If that is then aligned with an expectation that the bigger 7s tournaments will be carefully monitored for talented players and contracts will be up for grabs, it could create more interest or awareness if people can essentially put their hand up that they are interested in being looked at.

I wonder who aside from Friend is involved in scouting for players for the men's 7s programme?

 

[I like to watch]

^^^^
Pick athletes, teach them hybrid sevens rugby.

I also think we are on the wrong path only picking from 15's.

We are not being beaten by a lack of athleticism.
We are being beaten by a lack of brains.
lets just say the 3 forwards and the winger should primarily be athletes.
That means you should have 3 players with an idea of putting support players into space.
Out of a squad of 20 there should be 9 with those attributes.
We'd be closer to having 9 specialist wingers.....

 

[Scrubber2050]

Maybe just maybe we should look at the matter backwards.

Start at the top (Coach). Supposedly he selects (final say) the lads. Is HE picking the wrong ones, or some of them anyway.

Work out how we want to play, and choose players that can execute. Maybe cast the selection net outside of the 15 man game (including schoolboys) and look at track athletes, hockey players etc etc

But the buck always stops with the coach irrespective of what sport.

 

[wamberal]

Maybe the "buck" is not big enough to allow for all that you propose. It costs real money to "cast a selection net" in the first place, then to attract new talent, some of whom would need a lot of intensive education and physical training, also costs money. How big would the Sevens Squad have to be to allow for this, with players at various levels of preparedness for the real thing. 30? More?


My guess is that this programme runs on the smell of an oily rag, with nothing available for more than a tournament by tournament short-term fix.


No, the buck does not stop with the coach if the coach does not have all the resources that he should have to be successful. The buck stops with the code.


There are a lot of careers that I am glad I did not enter. Being a professional rugby coach in Australia would be high on that list of careers to avoid.

 

[I like to watch]

The coach has sufficient budget so that the 20 man squad earns an average of $92k

They travel the world business class & stay in 5 star hotels.

thats good enough to attract talent.

The fact that their b squad can't beat club teams,demonstrates the coach has just assembled the wrong players, not that their is no talent out there.

Friend has a track record of failure, in environments where resources were not an issue.
Remember he was sacked by the Brumbies in week 2 of the comp?
Tony Rea's spray was damning of Friend.
His gig before the 7's was with Suntory, who won a premiership & runner up the 2 years prior to his arrival.
They never made the playoffs in his two years, then won the comp the year after he left.

Past performance is the best indicator of future performance.
No one should be surprised we are battling to be mediocre under a less than mediocre coach.

 

[Norfolk & Chance]

What is your suggestion regarding scouting for young talent?

It seems the JGC and particularly the under 20 Super Rugby matches leading to the national championship have dramatically improved the selection pathway and made it a more even playing field than it has been in the past.

It appears that less and less talent is slipping through the cracks and being plucked from obscurity at a later age.

The JGC is no longer as it couldn't turn a profit. The under 20's is an elitist squad chosen by people who only watch certain games and hand pick the players they want on the recommendation of school coaches. There is no trialing, fitness assessment, skills testing, boys are invited to attend and are then treated like they are something special and once you are in you are in. (nothing against the players just the process and structure) I am fairly confident that if you gave a good coaching group, 30 of the players considered not good enough for the 20's squad from the Sydney or Brisbane Colts competition and gave them the off season to train, strengthen and refine the players skills they would not only be competitive against the 20's squad they could certainly beat them. Now there is an idea, get the district clubs to fund the squad and then have the team play in the 20's round robin. I can guarantee the 30 players chosen would be highly motivated to work hard and perform. Talent scouting is about finding talent and expanding the overall number of players to chose from, not cherry picking players, any fool can pick the standouts. Unfortunately the ARU think making the pool smaller is the way to go and I'm sure, that is a financial decision. What's forgotten is that the very large majority of players selected in the 20's come from private schools and to a lesser extent government sports highs and fair enough, they are semi professional at GPS level. Unfortunately if you are not in the top 40 players by the time you are 14 at private schools you are done, the A's and B's get all the good coaching, it is only on the rare occasions that someone will come up from C' or D's, at 15's, 16's or opens. There are some very talented boys at C and D level at 16's and at club level but they are never looked at, because at school level it's all about winning and nobody at club level gets looked end of story. Do i think there are players slipping through, hell yes, there are more slipping through than getting picked.

 

[southsider]

I kinda get where Norfolk & chance is coming from, I tend to think id be a much better 7's player than 15's. I'm currently a rep touch and oztag player with a decent junior representative history in rugby so have the grounding downpat but I don't play for a shute shield club so unless my subbies team enters in like 1 of 4 tournaments available ive got absolutely zero chance of playing 7's.

Id very much like them to develop some sort of subbies or shute shield 7's circuit where you can register for a club purely for 7's.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Norfolk and Chance

Only glaring example at school was Higgers.

Think he played thirds at TSS back in the day.

But your point is taken

 

[RebelYell]

The coach has sufficient budget so that the 20 man squad earns an average of $92k

They travel the world business class & stay in 5 star hotels.

thats good enough to attract talent.

There is not a single person in the squad earning $92,000. Bill's quotes from last week about both the men and the women were completely incorrect. Including before tax, including grants (performance & appearance related), 90% of the squad;s salaries do not come close to that figure.

The JGC is no longer as it couldn't turn a profit.

Really? I hadn't heard this... confirmed as scrapped?

 

[RugbyReg]

There is not a single person in the squad earning $92,000. Bill's quotes from last week about both the men and the women were completely incorrect. Including before tax, including grants (performance & appearance related), 90% of the squad;s salaries do not come close to that figure.

really? Alternative Facts? Any idea what's closer to the truth? And how you know this?

 

[I like to watch]

^^^i understand that minimum contracts are about 1/2 the stated average.
Whilst I have been critical of BP over many issues, I doubt he would brazenly lie about the 7's wages bill.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Was BP talking about what it costs the ARU to employee these guys including super, payroll tax, LAFHA, insurance, accommodation costs etc etc?

That would bring the actual salary down to where most think it probably is.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Does anyone know how much money Pulver receives as his monetary salary (forgetting all the perks like top flight, accommodation, car hire, expense accounts, wife's expenses which probably amounts to many many tens of thousands of dollars)

 

[Brumby Runner]

No idea Scrubber, but I do seem to recall that it was a whole lot less than JON was getting at the end of his tenure. How it's moved in the meantime is anybody's guess.

 

[Hot Dog]

There is not a single person in the squad earning $92,000. Bill's quotes from last week about both the men and the women were completely incorrect. Including before tax, including grants (performance & appearance related), 90% of the squad;s salaries do not come close to that figure.



Really? I hadn't heard this. confirmed as scrapped?

Thats not true. I know some players who are actually on a lot more than $92 000 !

 

[Braveheart81]

Does anyone know how much money Pulver receives as his monetary salary (forgetting all the perks like top flight, accommodation, car hire, expense accounts, wife's expenses which probably amounts to many many tens of thousands of dollars)

I don't know what it is now, but in 2014 it was listed at $735,885.

In 2015 the reporting requirements changed and there was no note to the accounts regarding key management personnel disclosures.