SupeRugby Final 2011: Queensland Reds V Canterbury Crusaders
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MajorlyRagerly
Trevor Allan (34)
To be fair to AC - he wrote what he wrote about arrogant Queensland Fans & stated quite clear that he was referring to people on the PR forum.
Perhaps he's too nervous to be posting on GAGR at this time? If, and a big if, the RWC final is between Aus & NZ, you are unlikely to see me here in enemy territory. Post match, regardless of result, yes.
Anyway - lets test the theory! Although it will show confidence over arrogance - how bout a public poll? I just tried to set one up, but no idea how. 4 options - pick the winner... options being...
I support Queensland & think Reds will win
I support Queensland & think Crusderers will win
& vice versa - actually interested in the result!
EDIT - worked it out, poll is ON!
Perhaps he's too nervous to be posting on GAGR at this time? If, and a big if, the RWC final is between Aus & NZ, you are unlikely to see me here in enemy territory. Post match, regardless of result, yes.
Anyway - lets test the theory! Although it will show confidence over arrogance - how bout a public poll? I just tried to set one up, but no idea how. 4 options - pick the winner... options being...
I support Queensland & think Reds will win
I support Queensland & think Crusderers will win
& vice versa - actually interested in the result!
EDIT - worked it out, poll is ON!
Bruwheresmycar
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
That is an awesome Reds team. Definitely one capable of winning the final. You can never be too sure though, if Carter has a blinder the Crusaders might take this. Whereas if Quade plays normally the Reds are always a chance.
I honestly can't tip this one. Might toss a coin.
I honestly can't tip this one. Might toss a coin.
Ali's Choice
Jimmy Flynn (14)
After 20 weeks of Rugby we’re down to just two remaining teams. The best two teams. And I don’t think anyone could argue that this final will be a truly epic event. The script could not have been better written. A full house of 50,000 cheering Aussies will be on hand to support their team. Hoping they can win their first trophy in the pro-era. And their opposition are no less than the most successful team in SANZAR, the Crusaders. With no less than 7 pro-era titles to their name. With all that has happened in Christchurch this year even the most ardent Reds fan could not begrudge them an 8th title.
I think this game will largely come down to which team handles the pressure of a final and which team is best able to take advantage of the limited scoring opportunities that present. Both goal kickers will need to be accurate with Ewen McKenzie no doubt hoping that Quade Cooper can kick more consistently than he did last weekend against the Blues.
These teams are at the same time both very similar and very different.
First the similarities. Both teams have tried to develop a team based culture, where the team is greater than the sum of its parts. Both teams have been able to take players who were discarded or unwanted elsewhere and make them better. Both teams are full of hard workers (George Whitelock, Beau Robinson, James Horwill, Brad Thorn, Wyatt Crockett, Ben Daley) whose value is their ability and willingness to do the unfashionable grunt work for 80 minutes. This allows the potency and flair in both teams to shine. Both teams have established cultures where personal ambitions run a distant second to the good of the team. I don’t think there are two teams in the competition that work harder at the breakdown. Both teams have dominated the crucial breakdown area because every player, from 1-22, is willing and able to attack the breakdown like an openside flanker, be it to secure a turnover, retain possession or contest for the ball.
Both teams have shown the ability to change their playing style depending on the situation and the opponent. This shows a rare degree of tactical smarts that comes down to good coaching and most importantly the presence of smart players in key positions (Carter, Ellis, Genia and Cooper). Both teams have shown the ability to win pretty and win ugly. Both teams can win a game up front, or put teams to the sword with dangerously potent backs. They can win tight, dour contests or blow teams away with a flurry of line breaks and tries. Both teams can play a kick-centric game or keep the ball in hand.
But there are some differences too. The Crusaders have some advantages in terms of experience. They have 11 players who have contested a final, compared to the Reds’ two. They have a superior scrum and this could potentially be very important. However, they will be massively disadvantaged with their travel schedule.
As for the Reds, they boast the world’s best half back and an outrageously gifted attacking first five (compared to the conservative Carter). Genia and Cooper will obviously be crucial to any Reds success. The Reds should also be much fresher and more comfortable having played in Brisbane last weekend. The Reds are also a much younger and presumably hungrier team. Whilst some Crusaders players are nearing the end of their careers and many have already tasted Super Rugby success, the Reds are just beginning their run at the top. The hunger for success should be a driving factor for them. Don’t underestimate the travel and youth factor, particularly late in the game if the match is close. I would imagine it would be harder to motivate yourself to dig deep for your team's 8th title than it might be to win your first ever pro-era title. The Reds' players have the opportunity to create some history and I have no doubt this will be highly motivational.
Overall I think this game is too close to call. I hope the Crusaders can pull off what will be a remarkable win, but something inside tells me that it is the Reds' fate to win this season. My heart says Crusaders but my head says the Reds. I believe that teams which play positive, dynamic rugby are nearly always rewarded and no team has been more positive or more dynamic over the past two years than the Reds.
PS - sorry about the length of the post.
I think this game will largely come down to which team handles the pressure of a final and which team is best able to take advantage of the limited scoring opportunities that present. Both goal kickers will need to be accurate with Ewen McKenzie no doubt hoping that Quade Cooper can kick more consistently than he did last weekend against the Blues.
These teams are at the same time both very similar and very different.
First the similarities. Both teams have tried to develop a team based culture, where the team is greater than the sum of its parts. Both teams have been able to take players who were discarded or unwanted elsewhere and make them better. Both teams are full of hard workers (George Whitelock, Beau Robinson, James Horwill, Brad Thorn, Wyatt Crockett, Ben Daley) whose value is their ability and willingness to do the unfashionable grunt work for 80 minutes. This allows the potency and flair in both teams to shine. Both teams have established cultures where personal ambitions run a distant second to the good of the team. I don’t think there are two teams in the competition that work harder at the breakdown. Both teams have dominated the crucial breakdown area because every player, from 1-22, is willing and able to attack the breakdown like an openside flanker, be it to secure a turnover, retain possession or contest for the ball.
Both teams have shown the ability to change their playing style depending on the situation and the opponent. This shows a rare degree of tactical smarts that comes down to good coaching and most importantly the presence of smart players in key positions (Carter, Ellis, Genia and Cooper). Both teams have shown the ability to win pretty and win ugly. Both teams can win a game up front, or put teams to the sword with dangerously potent backs. They can win tight, dour contests or blow teams away with a flurry of line breaks and tries. Both teams can play a kick-centric game or keep the ball in hand.
But there are some differences too. The Crusaders have some advantages in terms of experience. They have 11 players who have contested a final, compared to the Reds’ two. They have a superior scrum and this could potentially be very important. However, they will be massively disadvantaged with their travel schedule.
As for the Reds, they boast the world’s best half back and an outrageously gifted attacking first five (compared to the conservative Carter). Genia and Cooper will obviously be crucial to any Reds success. The Reds should also be much fresher and more comfortable having played in Brisbane last weekend. The Reds are also a much younger and presumably hungrier team. Whilst some Crusaders players are nearing the end of their careers and many have already tasted Super Rugby success, the Reds are just beginning their run at the top. The hunger for success should be a driving factor for them. Don’t underestimate the travel and youth factor, particularly late in the game if the match is close. I would imagine it would be harder to motivate yourself to dig deep for your team's 8th title than it might be to win your first ever pro-era title. The Reds' players have the opportunity to create some history and I have no doubt this will be highly motivational.
Overall I think this game is too close to call. I hope the Crusaders can pull off what will be a remarkable win, but something inside tells me that it is the Reds' fate to win this season. My heart says Crusaders but my head says the Reds. I believe that teams which play positive, dynamic rugby are nearly always rewarded and no team has been more positive or more dynamic over the past two years than the Reds.
PS - sorry about the length of the post.
Elfster
Alex Ross (28)
My God, no need to worry about the length for a great read.
I will take that over Mary Poppins at any time....
D
daz
Guest
Very neatly summed up. I agree with just about everything you have written.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Good post Ali.
This is the crux of the matter for the Crusaders, quite apart from talking about the Reds.
You say your heart is with the Saders but your head is with the Reds, but the bookies' heads are with the Saders.
You call that long?
.
This is the crux of the matter for the Crusaders, quite apart from talking about the Reds.
You say your heart is with the Saders but your head is with the Reds, but the bookies' heads are with the Saders.
You call that long?
.
T
tranquility
Guest
Ripper post, Ali's Choice.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
If the Crusaders win this one it will be one of the greatest victories in the face of adversity in the history of the game.
WE ARE RED!!!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately, the bookies usually get it right. Too much class, too much forward power, discipline, and structure, and a goal-kicker who actually kicks goals. :'( Plus a very dangerous set of outside backs. The Saders will win this last premiership, before the Red Dynasty starts in '12.
WE ARE RED!!!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately, the bookies usually get it right. Too much class, too much forward power, discipline, and structure, and a goal-kicker who actually kicks goals. :'( Plus a very dangerous set of outside backs. The Saders will win this last premiership, before the Red Dynasty starts in '12.
Ali's Choice
Jimmy Flynn (14)
I see a lot of similarities between this Reds team and the Crusaders title winning team of 1998. Both teams were/are underrated and faced much more experienced and vaunted opposition in the final. Both the Crusaders team in 1998 and the current Reds team relied on superb team work and an amazing degree of self belief to compensate for their relative lack of world class players across the park. Both teams were stronger than the sum of their parts. And both teams worked harder than almost any other team I have seen. Like the Crusaders in 1998 who did not fear the Champion Auckland Blues team, the Reds do not fear this Crusaders outfit. And self belief is so important at this stage of the season.
Gingerbeer
Peter Burge (5)
Great post Ali's Choice.
You know it's a tough one to call when Reds fans are saying "Heart says Reds, head says Crusaders" while Crusaders fans are saying "Hearts say Crusaders, head says Reds".
As much as I want the Reds to win, how evenly matched these two teams are is a huge part of the attraction in this final - the outcome of the game could turn either way on one little thing - one bad bounce of the ball, one dropped pass or missed tackle.
I'll be proud of what the Reds have achieved regardless of the outcome of their final game (but am just about wetting myself at the thought of seeing them win it all).
You know it's a tough one to call when Reds fans are saying "Heart says Reds, head says Crusaders" while Crusaders fans are saying "Hearts say Crusaders, head says Reds".
As much as I want the Reds to win, how evenly matched these two teams are is a huge part of the attraction in this final - the outcome of the game could turn either way on one little thing - one bad bounce of the ball, one dropped pass or missed tackle.
I'll be proud of what the Reds have achieved regardless of the outcome of their final game (but am just about wetting myself at the thought of seeing them win it all).
R
RuckinGoodStats
Guest
Crusaders averaged 5:17 contestable mins in opp 22, let opp spend an average 5:33 contestable mins in their 22.
Reds averaged 6:04 contestable mins in opp 22, let opp spend an average 5:47 contestable mins in their 22.
Reds averaged 6:04 contestable mins in opp 22, let opp spend an average 5:47 contestable mins in their 22.
Bruwheresmycar
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
All signs point to a close game!
Ali's Choice that is a fantastic post.
I think and I hope this one is too close to call. If the Reds lose I will be disappointed but when I look at the season you just have think Wow. If the Reds win then it's WOW. I know the other Bloggers on this site have been writing some great articles but I just haven't been able to. I want this so much I'm afraid anything I write will be just tripe. So sorry for be silent all week but the boys have done a great job of highlighting everything you need to know.
I think and I hope this one is too close to call. If the Reds lose I will be disappointed but when I look at the season you just have think Wow. If the Reds win then it's WOW. I know the other Bloggers on this site have been writing some great articles but I just haven't been able to. I want this so much I'm afraid anything I write will be just tripe. So sorry for be silent all week but the boys have done a great job of highlighting everything you need to know.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
AC, I'll echo the chorus of praise for your post. This promises to be every bit as good as the game during the home and away series and I can't wait to see it.
D
daz
Guest
Amen to that, brother.
It's why I have been amusing myself with a G&GR RWC squad, or making fun of Ruggo and TBH all week. My whole aim this week has been to avoid any potential for putting the superstitious mockers on the Reds.
I can put on a good front, but deep inside, my guts are twisted in circles and clamped tighter than the bum cheeks of a fundamentalist christian at a gay pride march. If I don't relax soon, I'll be lucky to have a bowel movement by Christmas.
Anyone who says the anticipation is as good as the result clearly needs a punch in the nose....
Is it 5:30pm Saturday yet?
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
I can't for the life of me say who will win this one, I will be supporting Saders,but will not be upset if Reds win, as they have been great to watch all year, and know how much good it will do rugby in Qld. Only thing I will add Ali, good post, although you could of shortened it by a couple of words when you said it would be Reds first title of Pro-Era, it would be their fist Super title. As I pointed out on PR when everyone got upset at you for saying it their fist title, it would be, when Qld won the Super 10, they were Qld and Reds didn't even come into being until Pro Era, same as Crusaders etc.
armatt
Fred Wood (13)
Sorry to diverge, but couldn't not share this... in short, I hope that Bryce Lawrence is equally invisible for most of tomorrow's match (best segue I could think of... I don't mean to rehash the ref argument...):
[video=youtube;rKyFlrT80VM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKyFlrT80VM&feature=player_embedded[/video]
[video=youtube;rKyFlrT80VM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKyFlrT80VM&feature=player_embedded[/video]
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
I really liked your post and agreed with most of it, but have always wondered how much difference playing a final makes. Surely playing Tests matches on foreign soil in a bledisloe cup or winning at altitude against SA has to give you some experience in big games.
I think that both sides international experience out shines any experience finals makes. But that is just my opinion.
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