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So where to from here?

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Torn Hammy

Johnnie Wallace (23)
It was the hit on Rocky Elsom by Keiran Read in the first half that made me realise the Wallabies forwards were in big trouble. Elsom, despite his wretched season and advancing years is still one of the hard men of international rugby, but Read thumped him with a tackle of immense speed, skill and fearlessness. Minutes earlier Jerome Kaino had caught a rampaging Digby Ioane and demonstrating great strength walked him 5 metres away from the tryline. Meanwhile Richie McCaw was playing with the deranged look and unstoppable momentum of a crazed zombie.

My point is that when the Kiwi forwards are in that frame of mind you are never going to win the physical battle against them. They have a physical arrogance and confidence that is similar to the doped athlete over his clean opponent. All our forwards except David Pocock were monstered and the pictures of Dan Vickerman, Radike Samo and Pat McCabe coming from the field were testament to the ferocity of the AB's attack and defense. In the second half Pocock was assisted by three team mates after he ran into Kaino but what we saw was all four of them pushed back by the strong Kiwi flanker. Running into these guys all day is courageous but stupid, like a yr 6 kid taking on the yr 12 bully.

The measure of this arrogance and confidence was only matched with an equally apparent panic when Genia, Ioane, Cooper, Horne O'Connor and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) weaved their magic runs. This mighty ABs team were seriously taken out of their comfort zone by these prodigiously gifted and talented young Wallaby backs. That each of them only had two runs in the semi-final and the fact that we only scored one try in the last 3 RWC matches to me clearly highlights a misguided and conservative group of coaches. Also when Pat McCabe was tackled by a prop, isolated and penalised giving away 3 points when he had a 3 man overlap that included the best winger in the world, Deans' policy of two dullard non passing centres was exposed as a great folly and a clear explanation as to why the ball rarely got to our talented outside backs.

This team won't go anywhere until the coaching staff realise that while they look at the forwards and slowly shake their heads, the backs and the Australian rugby fans are looking at the coaching staff and slowly shaking theirs.
 

Loki74

Ward Prentice (10)
It was the hit on Rocky Elsom by Keiran Read in the first half that made me realise the Wallabies forwards were in big trouble. Elsom, despite his wretched season and advancing years is still one of the hard men of international rugby, but Read thumped him with a tackle of immense speed, skill and fearlessness. Minutes earlier Jerome Kaino had caught a rampaging Digby Ioane and demonstrating great strength walked him 5 metres away from the tryline. Meanwhile Richie McCaw was playing with the deranged look and unstoppable momentum of a crazed zombie.

My point is that when the Kiwi forwards are in that frame of mind you are never going to win the physical battle against them. They have a physical arrogance and confidence that is similar to the doped athlete over his clean opponent. All our forwards except David Pocock were monstered and the pictures of Dan Vickerman, Radike Samo and Pat McCabe coming from the field were testament to the ferocity of the AB's attack and defense. In the second half Pocock was assisted by three team mates after he ran into Kaino but what we saw was all four of them pushed back by the strong Kiwi flanker. Running into these guys all day is courageous but stupid, like a yr 6 kid taking on the yr 12 bully.

The measure of this arrogance and confidence was only matched with an equally apparent panic when Genia, Ioane, Cooper, Horne O'Connor and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) weaved their magic runs. This mighty ABs team were seriously taken out of their comfort zone by these prodigiously gifted and talented young Wallaby backs. That each of them only had two runs in the semi-final and the fact that we only scored one try in the last 3 RWC matches to me clearly highlights a misguided and conservative group of coaches. Also when Pat McCabe was tackled by a prop, isolated and penalised giving away 3 points when he had a 3 man overlap that included the best winger in the world, Deans' policy of two dullard non passing centres was exposed as a great folly and a clear explanation as to why the ball rarely got to our talented outside backs.

This team won't go anywhere until the coaching staff realise that while they look at the forwards and slowly shake their heads, the backs and the Australian rugby fans are looking at the coaching staff and slowly shaking theirs.

So shouldn't we just give up if our forwards can never match the physicality of the Blacks. Is it a genetic thing?
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
This team won't go anywhere until the coaching staff realise that while they look at the forwards and slowly shake their heads, the backs and the Australian rugby fans are looking at the coaching staff and slowly shaking theirs.

That's one of the quotes of the year for mine. Awesome stuff.
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
Bruce Ross has said a couple of times this year that Wallabies supporters have taken false hope from wins that meant not a lot in the grand scheme of things. The Hong Kong win and the French demolition last year glossed over the losses to England and Munster.

The Reds Super season made some people forget that Super form doesn't always equate to International form. The Tri-Nations wasn't taken as seriously as it usually is by SA or NZ this year and while I'm sure every team wanted to win it, the RWC was clearly the main goal for PdV and Henry.

A lot of us could see that the Wallaby forward pack would struggle against a team like the ABs, SA, Eng etc in a knock-out game because the Wallaby pack seems to have to find a rare level of intensity, mongrel and aggressiveness to really get an edge on very good packs. In fact, when we found out that Carter was gone and McCaw looked pretty shakey as well, here's the conversation I had with a friend on Facebook:

Friend: hope u boys are right... everyone needs to step and we need the next generation of superstars to stamp there mark on this world cup....who would you rather meet in the semi? oz or rsa???
October 7 at 3:32pm · Like
Me: aussie.....they are weak up-front and without carter and mccaw, that's where we can really do a job on them. just like the 2nd half of the last brisbane game. woodcock, mealamu, franks, thorn, kaino, read and even ali williams....enuff grunt and experience in there to take on their pack and keep their back-line out of the game as much as possible....
October 7 at 3:35pm · Like

I don't know what you need to do or how you do it but somehow the Wallaby pack has to set a new level of "roll any mutha f**krs in our way" for a forward to make the team.
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
Speaking of Bruce Ross, where's he gone off too? Hopefully not shuffling off this mortal coil...
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
The problem about our forwards is none more highlighted by that thread here about Union in crisis in the country. Too many people only like the flashy stuff (go watch 7s) and find the forward stuff boring for some reason. No wonder Scott Higginbotham is worshipped on here.
 
T

The Chainsaw

Guest
Cut down on the coffee, Gnostic. You actually contradicted yourself and agreed with me.
Pato was a good scrummager, but as a coach he can only work with what he is given (as he is not a selector) [/B]and he was given players who had played no professional Rugby for a year or more or players who were not regarded the best in their positions by most learned observes

We can disagree with the fact that there are great props running around in Australia. Our opinions differ and that is healthy.

What is healthy is solutions and I do not see any from you.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Mate, it's the people who don't rate the bloke in your avatar that astound me. The bloke is running a illicit concrete pills lab in his basement and people say he needs to be cleared out. He'd be my first picked any day. In fact, make him captain for the Lions tour.

I like Vickerman and always have but I would like to badly know where his lineout skills have gone. It once was a very proud part of his game but the common denominator is that when our lineout has been shit Vicks has been in the starting 15.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
From the RWC, I'd say that Pocock was our best forward and Vickerman was probably our second best along with Horwill.

Our lineout did struggle during the RWC but I don't think our locks can be entirely blamed for that. If you look at the Springbok game which was easily our worst lineout showing, half the throws didn't reach the target. Moore was well off his game.

Vickerman has shown himself to be so important because he is one of our only forwards who can actually muscle up and intimidate the opposition. Him giving away penalties certainly ended at the Ireland game too.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
I wasn't intentionally thinking of Cooper but he clearly demonstrated he has the ability to direct as side around.

His challenge, as it is for any quality test 10 honing his trade, is to learn how to direct the side when things aren't going well. Not just sit in the pocket and wait for quick ball before doing something. Now that is partly down to coaching, but also to the player and the team working together. Sometimes it needs him to kick well and the backs to leverage that kick by working hard on the chase, as well as the kick return - we need the backs to work hard to get back, to provide support/options, on every kick.

I think Coopers biggest problem is his kicking game. It needs a lot of work. He is almost lazy in his technique, and I think he has lost distance over the last 2 years.

Fix this up and everything gets easier.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
I wished we listened to ex players more. I enjoyed the wallabies laughing about campo having an opinion at a press conference before the Ireland match only to have exactly what he said happen.

Not to Matt Burke it, but they have played, they are entitled to the opinion they give. (just as we are here) it's being constructive that's the main objective

No problem with this though when to open your gob and when to keep it shut is a basic skill I would expect from and older and more experienced former player. Calling a player a boofhead during a campaign only makes Farr-Jones the boofhead in my view. Also having been there and done that I would expect former players to grasp the benefit of hindsight concept better. I also find it adds more creedence to their opinion when they keep it constructive. John Eales is a fine example of this concept. Full of myself Campo isn't.

Their opinions and advice would be far more valuable if they cut the middle man and expressed it to the players or team themselves.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
From the RWC, I'd say that Pocock was our best forward and Vickerman was probably our second best along with Horwill.

Our lineout did struggle during the RWC but I don't think our locks can be entirely blamed for that. If you look at the Springbok game which was easily our worst lineout showing, half the throws didn't reach the target. Moore was well off his game.

Vickerman has shown himself to be so important because he is one of our only forwards who can actually muscle up and intimidate the opposition. Him giving away penalties certainly ended at the Ireland game too.

Pockock was our best and the rest of them failed to meet expectation. A lock to a lineout is what a prop is to a scrum. I don't share the Vickerman man love as he was dissipointing in what is a staple of his position.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
[video=youtube;sw9JYNPg4Z4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw9JYNPg4Z4&feature=related[/video]

They need to copy the Burke try from the second half in this game. This was a long time ago, but quick ball is still king.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Yeah - lineouts, I know. But if you had to blame someone - either Vickerman or Williams - I know who would be my prime suspect. It's hard for us to know, though.
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
From the RWC, I'd say that Pocock was our best forward and Vickerman was probably our second best along with Horwill.

Our lineout did struggle during the RWC but I don't think our locks can be entirely blamed for that. If you look at the Springbok game which was easily our worst lineout showing, half the throws didn't reach the target. Moore was well off his game.

Vickerman has shown himself to be so important because he is one of our only forwards who can actually muscle up and intimidate the opposition. Him giving away penalties certainly ended at the Ireland game too.

I digress here, the Wobs scrum the main culprit...
 
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