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So where to from here?

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Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
From the RWC, I'd say that Pocock was our best forward and Vickerman was probably our second best along with Horwill.

.

Really?

I didn't rate vickerman for at least his first two games. Penalty count and poor in the line out. doesnt matter if you're hard if you give away possession and points.
Pocock easily the best followed by Moore and then reluctantly horwill (reluctantly cause none of the others were very good at all).
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I thought Moore was well down on his 2010/11 form (which had him as one of the Wallabies best players).

His lineout throwing was particularly poor against South Africa which cost us a few lineouts (hard to blame the jumper when the opposition is winning the lineout ball well in front of our jumper).

Anyway, it's all subjective.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Vickerman's work at ruck was good, but he wasn't his old self at lineout time, I don't think he successfully won an opps lineout all season
 

Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
I'd like to see Higgers be put to work at 8 for the Reds this upcoming season. If he can get consistent time there and get better at the base of the scrum, I think he has the workings to be an excellent number 8. Great hands, pace, mobility and strong into contact.

If that gets done, just need a proper blindside to replace rocky as he begins to approach 30. Dennis? Saffy? Quirk for the future possibly.

Then the issues are just developing a couple quality props and playing the right people at 10,12 and 13.
 

light

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Yeah we definitely need to address a few positions, 5, 6 and 8 are the most vital right now.
Brittish Lions tour team..
1. Benn Robinson
2. Stephen Moore
3. Ben Alexander
4. James Horwill (C)
5. Dan Vickerman/Rob Simmons/Hugh Pyle/Sitaleki Timani
6. Rocky Elsom/Jarrod Saffy/Ed Quirk/Scott Higgenbotham
7. David Pocock
8. Wycliff Palu/Dave Dennis/Jake Schatz
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
I'd like to see Higgers be put to work at 8 for the Reds this upcoming season. If he can get consistent time there and get better at the base of the scrum, I think he has the workings to be an excellent number 8. Great hands, pace, mobility and strong into contact.

If that gets done, just need a proper blindside to replace rocky as he begins to approach 30. Dennis? Saffy? Quirk for the future possibly.

Then the issues are just developing a couple quality props and playing the right people at 10,12 and 13.

I would like to see Higgers and his coaches watch as many videos of Keiran Reid as possible. He is an amaizingly talented athlete with many attributes but needs to find the best combination of roles for him to put them to best use. I stick up for him a lot but his RWC did not impress.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
One thing for sure. Our Test players MUST play in their Test positions in Super Rugby. That means, for example, Ben Alexander MUST play THP. Also, we must have a unified approach in coaching all positions on the field, so that players can make a relatively seamless transition from the Super teams to the national squad.


The ARU has to stamp its little foot, and pull the coaches into line, for the sake of the game's future. Surely even the dimmest Super franchise understands that the success of the national team permeates down through all the levels of the game?
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
Surely you don't mean that the Super coaches should coach like Dingo?! :eek:

(Kidding, kidding... it's a very good point you make).
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
One thing for sure. Our Test players MUST play in their Test positions in Super Rugby. That means, for example, Ben Alexander MUST play THP. Also, we must have a unified approach in coaching all positions on the field, so that players can make a relatively seamless transition from the Super teams to the national squad.

Always an interesting equation. Beale supposedly wants to play flyhalf for the Rebels. If he does, do we then not consider him a fullback? Barnes also, likely to play 10 you would think, so then we wouldn't look at him in 12?
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Also pretty unlikely that James O'Connor is going to play 14 for the Rebels.

Unlikely that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is going to play 13 for the Tahs.

It is definitely harder to achieve in the backline as players are more likely to be playing in a more 'valuable' position in Super rugby due them being a star for their respective team.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
I read Wamberal's point as referring to forwards, but I guess he did say all test players. Inconceivable with backs.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I thought Moore was well down on his 2010/11 form (which had him as one of the Wallabies best players).

His lineout throwing was particularly poor against South Africa which cost us a few lineouts (hard to blame the jumper when the opposition is winning the lineout ball well in front of our jumper).

Anyway, it's all subjective.

The problems against SA weren't Moore's fault...

There was ONE throw that was crooked after the lineout went to shit...

If the ball is being thrown to the intended target, and it's not being caught, there's not much more that the hooker can do...

The lineout was poorly managed... and Vickerman has to place the blame for that...

The article that appeared on the blog outlined very well that the Wallabies were making it easy for the Boks to know where the ball was going to be thrown...

Moore was between solid to great all year...

Vickerman's ruck work and tackle count was good. But his lineout management was very very poor, which is disappointing as it was one of the world's best 3 years ago...
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Always an interesting equation. Beale supposedly wants to play flyhalf for the Rebels. If he does, do we then not consider him a fullback? Barnes also, likely to play 10 you would think, so then we wouldn't look at him in 12?

Funny thing about barnes is I reckon he is a 10 in test but a 12 in super rugby.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The problems against SA weren't Moore's fault...

There was ONE throw that was crooked after the lineout went to shit...

If the ball is being thrown to the intended target, and it's not being caught, there's not much more that the hooker can do...

The lineout was poorly managed... and Vickerman has to place the blame for that...

The article that appeared on the blog outlined very well that the Wallabies were making it easy for the Boks to know where the ball was going to be thrown...

Moore was between solid to great all year...

Vickerman's ruck work and tackle count was good. But his lineout management was very very poor, which is disappointing as it was one of the world's best 3 years ago...

Look at how many of the lineouts we lost were intercepted by an opposing jumper in front of our own jumper. They might have been too predictable, but plenty of lineouts we lost just didn't make it all the way to the target.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Really?

I didn't rate vickerman for at least his first two games. Penalty count and poor in the line out. doesnt matter if you're hard if you give away possession and points.
Pocock easily the best followed by Moore and then reluctantly horwill (reluctantly cause none of the others were very good at all).

Vickerman would appear to have lost the will to scrummage
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Always an interesting equation. Beale supposedly wants to play flyhalf for the Rebels. If he does, do we then not consider him a fullback? Barnes also, likely to play 10 you would think, so then we wouldn't look at him in 12?

Obviously there will be exceptions, short-term exigencies, emergencies, and so on. However, it seems pretty obvious that we are all in a relatively small boat as rugby supporters in Australia. This small boat has potential, as we see when an Australian team makes the semi-final of the World Cup and the ratings soar.

To keep this small boat afloat in a very competitive marketplace, let alone to enable it grow, will take some tough decisions and, dare I say, some medium term pain.

Frankly, I would say bugger off, Kurtley. You are Australia's #1 full-back. Play there, improve your game.


Barnes is a different case. He is clearly suited to either 10 or 12, and should be allowed to play either position ( and, indeed, some would argue that most players who are competent in one of these postions should be able to play ther other). But my point stands, the Wallabies coach (or his delegate) should be empowered to consult with the Super Rugby coaches to ensure that players are played in the positions that suit the national interest, not the short-term interests of a Super Rugby franchise.


This is one reason that privatisation of Super Rugby franchises is - perhaps - not a good thing for the overall health, and growth of the game.


When the Wallabies are strong, we have a chance. The Reds winning this year is a momentary bonus. The Wallabies are the main game.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Obviously there will be exceptions, short-term exigencies, emergencies, and so on. However, it seems pretty obvious that we are all in a relatively small boat as rugby supporters in Australia. This small boat has potential, as we see when an Australian team makes the semi-final of the World Cup and the ratings soar.

To keep this small boat afloat in a very competitive marketplace, let alone to enable it grow, will take some tough decisions and, dare I say, some medium term pain.

Frankly, I would say bugger off, Kurtley. You are Australia's #1 full-back. Play there, improve your game.


Barnes is a different case. He is clearly suited to either 10 or 12, and should be allowed to play either position ( and, indeed, some would argue that most players who are competent in one of these postions should be able to play ther other). But my point stands, the Wallabies coach (or his delegate) should be empowered to consult with the Super Rugby coaches to ensure that players are played in the positions that suit the national interest, not the short-term interests of a Super Rugby franchise.


This is one reason that privatisation of Super Rugby franchises is - perhaps - not a good thing for the overall health, and growth of the game.


When the Wallabies are strong, we have a chance. The Reds winning this year is a momentary bonus. The Wallabies are the main game.

Beale has never been and will never be a rugby 5/8 - he plays like a league 5/8
 
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