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waratahjesus
Greg Davis (50)
I wished we listened to ex players more. I enjoyed the wallabies laughing about campo having an opinion at a press conference before the Ireland match only to have exactly what he said happen.
Not to Matt Burke it, but they have played, they are entitled to the opinion they give. (just as we are here) it's being constructive that's the main objective
Not to Matt Burke it, but they have played, they are entitled to the opinion they give. (just as we are here) it's being constructive that's the main objective
I wasn't intentionally thinking of Cooper but he clearly demonstrated he has the ability to direct as side around.
His challenge, as it is for any quality test 10 honing his trade, is to learn how to direct the side when things aren't going well. Not just sit in the pocket and wait for quick ball before doing something. Now that is partly down to coaching, but also to the player and the team working together. Sometimes it needs him to kick well and the backs to leverage that kick by working hard on the chase, as well as the kick return - we need the backs to work hard to get back, to provide support/options, on every kick.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
I always find it odd that after a game like Sunday (or Ireland) everyone says "Oh, well, it wouldn't have mattered what the backs did with the pack being beaten like that." Yes, it's incredibly tough to win if the forward pack remains dominated but smart back line play, especially from the halves, can give the forwards better field position to work with and relieve pressure, which in turn can allow them the opportunity to regroup and perhaps regain parity (or even ascendance). Cooper seemed like he was waiting for front foot ball rather than helping put the forwards in a position to offer it.
Exactly.
It is much easier for our forwards to gain ascendency when more scrums and lineouts are deep within the opposition half. After one or two failed box kicks, we should have either been keeping the ball in hand or kicking for territory and trying to force a lineout in the ABs 22.
If our forwards are going backwards, our backs need to find other ways of going forward. In my opinion, Genia's box kicking throughout the RWC was almost as useless as the chip kicks and grubbers that everyone despises.
It is much easier for our forwards to gain ascendency when more scrums and lineouts are deep within the opposition half. After one or two failed box kicks, we should have either been keeping the ball in hand or kicking for territory and trying to force a lineout in the ABs 22.
If our forwards are going backwards, our backs need to find other ways of going forward. In my opinion, Genia's box kicking throughout the RWC was almost as useless as the chip kicks and grubbers that everyone despises.
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
One type of kicking in itself isn't bad. It's when someone repeatedly does the same type of kick that it gets old. No one watching Genia in the WC was surprised when he box kicked because he did it every chance he got. I'm sure that after the 3rd or 4th one the chasers were saying to themselves not this shit again and the intensity of the chase would drop off.
Throw in a few chip kicks, kick for territory and the odd snipe and then you'll keep the defenders honest. Every time Genia box kicked the defence already knew what he was going to do and had dropped back to cover it. That made it even harder for the chasers as they had to also watch for possible counter attacks from Genia's box kicks.
I like Genia and think he has the makings of a world class scrum half and the decision making that isn't quite there yet should come with time. One thing that doesn't help him is that he has QC (Quade Cooper) outside him. So there's no steady old head to have a word with him during games or to demand the ball for a kick down field for territory. Add to that the fact the QC (Quade Cooper) is put at fullback on defence and the option to kick for territory is removed on turnovers, expecially when it's slow ball and Aus can't use their broken field runners.
Throw in a few chip kicks, kick for territory and the odd snipe and then you'll keep the defenders honest. Every time Genia box kicked the defence already knew what he was going to do and had dropped back to cover it. That made it even harder for the chasers as they had to also watch for possible counter attacks from Genia's box kicks.
I like Genia and think he has the makings of a world class scrum half and the decision making that isn't quite there yet should come with time. One thing that doesn't help him is that he has QC (Quade Cooper) outside him. So there's no steady old head to have a word with him during games or to demand the ball for a kick down field for territory. Add to that the fact the QC (Quade Cooper) is put at fullback on defence and the option to kick for territory is removed on turnovers, expecially when it's slow ball and Aus can't use their broken field runners.
FrankLind
Colin Windon (37)
The perception with some in regard to the Wallabies is success might be just around the corner because they are so young.
However.....consider this from Paul Cully
"There are no guarantees that this Wallabies side can eradicate its frailties simply by observing the passage of time. The average age of the Wallabies starting XV on Sunday was 26 years. The average age of the All Blacks was 27.6 years. It is not a chasm.
Yes, the hosts were helped by contributions from their older warriors (especially from the bench), but the spark equally came from the likes of Israel Dagg and Owen Franks. Like that pair, Sam Whitelock - unchallenged in the lineouts - is also 23. Kieran Read is younger than Digby Ioane. New Zealand have won the past four Junior World Championships. They do not give the impression of a nation standing idle and waiting to be overtaken.
...
The All Blacks back three have been remodelled since the Springboks caused Joe Rokocoko and Sitiveni Sivivatu all manner of misery in 2009 with their aerial inquisitions. Safety under the high ball is now a prerequisite for the wingers. The clue was in Cory Jane's selection – a converted fullback – yet Will Genia kicked to him on three occasions – in the 2nd, 16th and 32nd minute for the same result.
Even if the Wallabies had forced some midfield knock-ons from the All Blacks it was unclear what the benefit could be - the scrum was the one area where inferiority was almost guaranteed. The Wallabies have some wonderful runners – Ioane in particular – and the All Blacks will have been mightily relieved to see him consigned to a Bryan Habana role of kick chaser.
As for Cooper, it is hard not to feel some sympathy for him. His year has been complicated by the fact that he won a title for the Reds while being hidden in defence. What was good for Queensland was not good for the national cause. Had he defended in the No.10 channel all year more complete assessments about his readiness for the World Cup furnace could have been made. Instead, he turned up at the tournament with his chin hanging out but telling anyone who would listen he could take the punches. Perhaps a more centralised approach is called for, especially in World Cup years.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/r...alian-rugby-20111018-1ltzd.html#ixzz1bAMd1wYA
However.....consider this from Paul Cully
"There are no guarantees that this Wallabies side can eradicate its frailties simply by observing the passage of time. The average age of the Wallabies starting XV on Sunday was 26 years. The average age of the All Blacks was 27.6 years. It is not a chasm.
Yes, the hosts were helped by contributions from their older warriors (especially from the bench), but the spark equally came from the likes of Israel Dagg and Owen Franks. Like that pair, Sam Whitelock - unchallenged in the lineouts - is also 23. Kieran Read is younger than Digby Ioane. New Zealand have won the past four Junior World Championships. They do not give the impression of a nation standing idle and waiting to be overtaken.
...
The All Blacks back three have been remodelled since the Springboks caused Joe Rokocoko and Sitiveni Sivivatu all manner of misery in 2009 with their aerial inquisitions. Safety under the high ball is now a prerequisite for the wingers. The clue was in Cory Jane's selection – a converted fullback – yet Will Genia kicked to him on three occasions – in the 2nd, 16th and 32nd minute for the same result.
Even if the Wallabies had forced some midfield knock-ons from the All Blacks it was unclear what the benefit could be - the scrum was the one area where inferiority was almost guaranteed. The Wallabies have some wonderful runners – Ioane in particular – and the All Blacks will have been mightily relieved to see him consigned to a Bryan Habana role of kick chaser.
As for Cooper, it is hard not to feel some sympathy for him. His year has been complicated by the fact that he won a title for the Reds while being hidden in defence. What was good for Queensland was not good for the national cause. Had he defended in the No.10 channel all year more complete assessments about his readiness for the World Cup furnace could have been made. Instead, he turned up at the tournament with his chin hanging out but telling anyone who would listen he could take the punches. Perhaps a more centralised approach is called for, especially in World Cup years.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/r...alian-rugby-20111018-1ltzd.html#ixzz1bAMd1wYA
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Is that really your Dad? Top stuff from him, could not agree more. Gee it's great to see the passion and acute insight in and from so many of Australia's multiple rugby generations.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Wasn't this what McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Fainga'a were supposed to provide?
you see there was a plan ........................... but all together didn't match Mortlock's ability to drive over the advantage line.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
No kidding! What surprises me is that anyone would be surprised by this.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) just isn't a fullback, to be fair to him, he's make shift at best. He was appalling vs the All Blacks in the semi, I thought, particularly his strongest part of his game - his running - where all AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) did is isolate himself. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s greatest weakness has often been stated - inability to feed the men outside of him good pill. Running from fullback his timing is just off, and he tends to drift too wide. It's more pronounced than from 13, as from fullback you are usually coming from greater depth.
I am really hoping the Tahs don't make AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) fullback next year, because I think he's wasted there. I reckon the Tahs would be better off switching Mitchell or Turner to fullback and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to wing, but that's for the Tahs thread.
Where to from here? Learn how to make forwards show up to more games than the Brisbane Bledisloe. That's way more important than dicking around with, say, x, y and z in the backs. Forwards sorted first, then backs second. Look at the All Blacks - their forwards rarely fail to show up, and even when they don't, they still are very rarely comprehensively beaten.
Ultimately, I think some key problems in the forwards hurt us in key games. Our front row let us down in key games, both in the scrum and around the park. TPN vs Ireland was out of form and still coming back from injury. We consistent lacked form from our blindside and number 8. Palu was our only shot at a good 8 and he never should have even been taken. We had just one openside, who won us a game (thanks to no breakdown reffing) then got (probably justifiably) reffed out of the semi, and lost us another when he was injured and we had no backup.
You know what? Out of all that, consistency is what I want. And I reckon a large part of that is that we peaked for the Tri-Nations, and simply couldn't hold form into the World Cup.
I am really hoping the Tahs don't make AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) fullback next year, because I think he's wasted there. I reckon the Tahs would be better off switching Mitchell or Turner to fullback and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to wing, but that's for the Tahs thread.
Where to from here? Learn how to make forwards show up to more games than the Brisbane Bledisloe. That's way more important than dicking around with, say, x, y and z in the backs. Forwards sorted first, then backs second. Look at the All Blacks - their forwards rarely fail to show up, and even when they don't, they still are very rarely comprehensively beaten.
Ultimately, I think some key problems in the forwards hurt us in key games. Our front row let us down in key games, both in the scrum and around the park. TPN vs Ireland was out of form and still coming back from injury. We consistent lacked form from our blindside and number 8. Palu was our only shot at a good 8 and he never should have even been taken. We had just one openside, who won us a game (thanks to no breakdown reffing) then got (probably justifiably) reffed out of the semi, and lost us another when he was injured and we had no backup.
You know what? Out of all that, consistency is what I want. And I reckon a large part of that is that we peaked for the Tri-Nations, and simply couldn't hold form into the World Cup.
T
The Chainsaw
Guest
Agree with Parto staying, but people on this thread must realise that a coach can only work with what he has and great scrummagers are rare in this country. Spend a week at a French Div 1 club. The props in their squads are a club within a club. They train as props and occasionally come into their un-structured team runs. In Buenos Aires all Prem clubs have these neanderthal like beasts with twisted noses and ears. The AB props have all had stints outwith their country to learn their trade. I believe, and I am repeating myself until someone listens, that we should develop a squad of up-and-comers who will be sent o/s to learn their trade and come back when they have cauliflours. AOur next crop will not learn in Brisbane, Sydney, canberra or Perth clubs. Get someone else to pay for their education. Our next Forwards coach should coach about power, possession and position. We do not make the ad line enough when we have smaller players(in weight) than the AB's and Wales.The Super 15 is not a global game - we struggle with AB's and Northern Hemisphere teams as we all try to appease the fans with calypso Rugby. There is a time and a place for both. In saying all this Robbo was sorely missed but we need to have 5 more to call upon.
W
WhoDaresWin
Guest
IMO, I think a large of that is due to Dingo Deans employing & enforcing a youthful policy in the squad.
Should have held onto Gits, Mortlock, G.Holmes among others just a little wee bit longer.
Sharpes is playing his 100th test this week, and it would be wise if Deans use him for the next few months till the young ones have wisen up.
Should have held onto Gits, Mortlock, G.Holmes among others just a little wee bit longer.
Sharpes is playing his 100th test this week, and it would be wise if Deans use him for the next few months till the young ones have wisen up.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
They also have a crap coach.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Rubbish. Plain and simple. Do not try and alter circumstances to protect a poor coaching regime. As with the lie about the "youngest side at the RWC" it has now morphed to a "young side" when the lie was exposed. The FACT is there are very good scrummaging props in Oz. The FACT is that they do not get selected because Deans wants running props - hence we get Alexander at THP. Kepu was the best all round THP in Oz this year. Did he start a game at THP, not that I can remember. No Deans selects and starts his favourite in Alexander who was heavily penalised during the Super season at LH and when he started at THP this year the same old probelms with his set up were apparent. Lets not blame the scrum issues all on the front row either, a certain second rower was present in 2007 when the scrum got dusted and he was drafted in specially, breaking the spirit of the "you must play Super Rugby to be elligble for the Wallabies" rule if not its letter. Am I surprised the scrum turned to shit, unfortunately no. I am a little surprised the lineout was rubbish but then the best Lineout forward since the retirement of Eales and Giffen was even selected in most games. COnsidering that bloke has also been the most consistant ball carrying forward for years why do we wonder that the forwards got no gains at all.
Pato was a good scrummager, but as a coach he can only work with what he is given (as he is not a selector) and he was given players who had played no professional Rugby for a year or more or players who were not regarded the best in their positions by most learned observes. Pato would also remember why Foley is rumoured to have resigned the same job under Deans to become a provincial assistant, and perhaps he didn't want to be "moved on".
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