So where to from here?

[waratahjesus]

the most important question in the review has to be.

with 2 years till the biggest test series in australia for 12 years, do we rebuild now with players that will be around by the next world cup, or do we try to win it then just see where we are?

 

[Train Without a Station]

the most important question in the review has to be.

with 2 years till the biggest test series in australia for 12 years, do we rebuild now with players that will be around by the next world cup, or do we try to win it then just see where we are?

Why do winning games and building towards something have to be two different things? We've tried that approach and gotten nowhere, where the All Blacks have tried winning all the games and building towards something and got a step closer so far at least.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Why do winning games and building towards something have to be two different things? We've tried that approach and gotten nowhere, where the All Blacks have tried winning all the games and building towards something and got a step closer so far at least.

But they have hundreds of world class players bleeding black to get a start


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[waratahjesus]

Why do winning games and building towards something have to be two different things? We've tried that approach and gotten nowhere, where the All Blacks have tried winning all the games and building towards something and got a step closer so far at least.

our depth has been shown up again this year as a joke. We need to do what Samoa and other smaller nations do for mine and pick a core group that is going to be selected and train and condition them as a team, our individuals havnt meshed as one for years.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Does anybody else not find it concerning that for arguably the biggest game in 8 years, prior to Kurtley Beale getting injured, our starting team contained 5 players from the Super Rugby Champions, the Reds. 5 Players from cellar dwellers the Brumbies, 2 players from the disappointing and injury affected Force, and 3 players from the finals making Waratahs (One of whom was Vickerman who played 1 game).

Is form at all relevant? I understand that in test football sometimes you have to stick with the incumbents who have gotten the job done before. However considering the silverware cupboard has been pretty fucking bare since 2002, how can we really say the vast majority of these players have gotten the job done before? I'm all for picking the incumbents when they're notching up the W's but this just seems like blind loyalty.

Am I out of line to expect that the Wallabies should be heavily represented by the Reds and Tahs with only a sprinkling of the better players from the poor performing teams?

 

[pete88]

Am I out of line to expect that the Wallabies should be heavily represented by the Reds and Tahs with only a sprinkling of the better players from the poor performing teams?

I agree in principle, and I think Beau Robinson and Ben Tapuai deserved a better shot, but the Tahs in particular were all crocked, I mean if Barnes, Benn Robinson, Mitchell and Palu had never been injured I'm sure they would have been starting (with the possible exception of O'Connor/Ioane starting ahead of Mitchell).

 

[Train Without a Station]

Pete, let's not forget that Palu managed about 3 games, Barnes missed a large chunk of the season and Mitchell missed the second half of the season. The guys replacing them still managed to do better than their Force, Rebels and Brumbies counterparts.

Maybe I'm being a little simplistic, but then again, maybe it's not so fucking complicated. Take the Reds XV, and then replace everybody where there is a better performing alternative. Probably a few Tahs in the pack, Pocock and O'Conner thrown in too.

Would have left you with a team something like this:

1. Robinson - Obviously injury would have forced his replacement with somebody like Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Horwill
5. Vickerman/Sharpe
6. Higginbotham
7. Pocock
8. Samo/Dennis/Mowen - Probably 3 stand out options in performing teams
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Fainga'a - Managed to play 12 in 2010 and some of 2011 in a functioning backline - Can McCabe say the same?
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - Possibly picked on past deeds due to lack of 12 depth.
14. O'Conner
15. Beale

Squad could then include a few players like Tapui, Robinson, Holmes, TPN, Barnes, Burgess, Morahan, etc. dependent on injury, as opposed to a bunch of blokes picked on past deeds which never actually occurred. I'd say everybody's a genius with the benefit of hindsight if most of us hadn't been saying something like this all along.

 

[waratahjesus]

McCabe getting picked when Tom Carter outplayed the he'll out of him all season is still what gets me, form has nothing to do with it.

 

[Hawko]

Am I out of line to expect that the Wallabies should be heavily represented by the Reds and Tahs with only a sprinkling of the better players from the poor performing teams?

Of course you are. Do you not understand that the NZ supercoach can sense ability that no one else can see? The ability to rise to the top as shown by the Reds and Waratahs had nothing to do with their ability, nor their desire. It was all a matter of pure luck. And of course the results our national team has achieved over the last two years bear that out. Why, if you take out the losses to NZ, England, Ireland, Scotland and Samoa we have been absolute champions!

 

[Gnostic]

McCabe getting picked when Tom Carter outplayed the he'll out of him all season is still what gets me, form has nothing to do with it.

If a pure crash ball centre is wanted who can defend I agree, Carter is a better bet than McAbe IMO. I don't think I have ever seen TC held up like McAbe was against the Irish. It is just another example of the bewildering mismatch between selection and attempted game planning by The Master Coach. Of course we know nothing and all these losses are teaching the players something. I hope it something more than humility and coping with depression. Maybe its how to decipher the ramblings of a person with at best vague ideas of tactics and no fully formed plan to implement.

I really feel for the players in Australia ATM. I see no way forward out of this mess while this "team" remains in the coaching box. It is a myth regarding lack of depth, and just another example in the lengthening and never ending list of excuses made for Deans. Nobody made excuses like this for Connolly, Jones or Greg Smith, they were held responsible for the poor results achieved on their watch and more importantly the lack of improvements in basic game planning (or over planning in Connolly and Jones case) and skills execution.

 

[Athilnaur]

McCabe getting picked when Tom Carter outplayed the he'll out of him all season is still what gets me, form has nothing to do with it.

You know, I think TC will get a shot to stake a claim this year WJ. But like McCabe he is gonna have to show a step up in attack and distribution. Will TC get played at 12 or 13 now Horne is in the mix?

 

[Jnor]

But for Kepu switching from TH to LH, Higgers and Ant at 12 that team is the same as the Wallaby XV we saw.

Squad make-up is different but I don't really get it - are you saying RD was right? FWIW I don't think Higgers at 6 or Ant at 12 would have been good calls anyway, although Higgers should have seen a bit more game time overall, just not as thee run-on 6

 

[waratahjesus]

Horne is a 13, TC inside always. Tahs best player 3 years in a row and still no recognition

 

[da_grubster]

the most important question in the review has to be.

with 2 years till the biggest test series in australia for 12 years, do we rebuild now with players that will be around by the next world cup, or do we try to win it then just see where we are?

I think the current players are young enough to be around for both the Lions and the next world cup. Seriously, you could pencil 20 names in now for 2015 from the current wobs squad and go about getting the right players for the next 10 spots. Keep them together and let them win and grow together as a team.

The future is bright in Aus rugby. I know that after a semi loss you wont feel it but it is there for all to see. Patience is a key word as well as continuity. You either stick with Deans or put Link in there now

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Pete, let's not forget that Palu managed about 3 games, Barnes missed a large chunk of the season and Mitchell missed the second half of the season. The guys replacing them still managed to do better than their Force, Rebels and Brumbies counterparts.

Maybe I'm being a little simplistic, but then again, maybe it's not so fucking complicated. Take the Reds XV, and then replace everybody where there is a better performing alternative. Probably a few Tahs in the pack, Pocock and O'Conner thrown in too.

Would have left you with a team something like this:

1. Robinson - Obviously injury would have forced his replacement with somebody like Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Horwill
5. Vickerman/Sharpe
6. Higginbotham
7. Pocock
8. Samo/Dennis/Mowen - Probably 3 stand out options in performing teams
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Fainga'a - Managed to play 12 in 2010 and some of 2011 in a functioning backline - Can McCabe say the same?
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) - Possibly picked on past deeds due to lack of 12 depth.
14. O'Conner
15. Beale

Squad could then include a few players like Tapui, Robinson, Holmes, TPN, Barnes, Burgess, Morahan, etc. dependent on injury, as opposed to a bunch of blokes picked on past deeds which never actually occurred. I'd say everybody's a genius with the benefit of hindsight if most of us hadn't been saying something like this all along.

Not saying I disagree ...... But mowen couldn't even keep his s15 spot - a situation only made more puzzling by his tahs replacement having passed his use by date


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[Antony]

I don't really think you can complain too much about not selecting more reds/waratahs. Clearly selecting a team is different from selecting the best individuals, so some people are going to miss out in the interests of balance (although I accept that there is worth is retaining champion combinations; e.g. Genia/Cooper).

Also, the All black 22 on Sunday contained 7 Hurricanes and zero Highlanders (though in fairness, that's partly because the highlanders got injured).

 

[waratahjesus]

If anyone is worried about rugby future, just tune into Fox Sports and listen to the Khoder Nassan or however u spell it interview on quade. Everything is sweet.

 

[Scotty]

Of course you are. Do you not understand that the NZ supercoach can sense ability that no one else can see? The ability to rise to the top as shown by the Reds and Waratahs had nothing to do with their ability, nor their desire. It was all a matter of pure luck. And of course the results our national team has achieved over the last two years bear that out. Why, if you take out the losses to NZ, England, Ireland, Scotland and Samoa we have been absolute champions!

A few here are forgetting that the All Black backline is made up with a bunch of Hurricanes players that also did very poorly this year.

 

[fatprop]

Barnes, as I have said before, is the prime example of a skillset that suits test/knockout rugby more than the chuck it round stuff of the early S15 rounds

There are quite a few mentioned here that really haven't shown the discipline, accuracy, attitude & technique to be a test player yet and some that have been tried who haven't look like stepping up.
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[Scotty]

Barnes, as I have said before, is the prime example of a skillset that suits test/knockout rugby more than the chuck it round stuff of the early S15 rounds

There are quite a few mentioned here that really haven't shown the discipline, accuracy, attitude & technique to be a test player yet and some that have been tried who haven't look like stepping up.
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Are you saying that the later s15 rounds are tighter, and therefore a flyhalf that was successful in those can also be successful in test rugby?