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T
Train Without a Station
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Digby to 10, Beale to wing, Quade to 15.
Athilnaur
Arch Winning (36)
Sorry can't bring myself to read all 8 pages. I did manage to force myself through the first 25 of the game again though, so maybe some observations to start.
Dagg was bloody magic. He made our forwards look useless in defense.
Jane and Dagg were bloody great under the high ball. Cruden fronted up again. Really like that boy.
Now all that said, we had some good stuff. Our defense overall was superb. One try to some Dagg brilliance. Blacks scrambled better against some Ioane brilliance. Having ridden out the first 15 we started to edge into the game and look dangerous when we got the ball. Other good points Cooper played better, and some of his tackles were bloody blinders.
I just wish we hadn't kicked. If Genia never kicked another box kick in that game we'd have been a lot better off. Fair enough try em out, but if you see Jane and Dagg having blinders and the blacks showing superb support, maybe it's a bad time to kick in field. Just a thought.
My point tho, is that it was 1 try nil and right up to the last five we threatened them. We were comprehensively outplayed but it could have been a lot worse.
So, where to?
Setting aside games this year which I'd expect will be largely extensions of the current team, here's my wish list for next year;
- Cooper playing 10 not 10 comes 15
- Beale, Ioane, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at wing/FB.
- O'Connor, McCabe at 12, 13 in super rugby to build skills and see form in both slots.
- Best form Aussie inside centre with a balance of good hard defense and attack gets job. Be aware that could be Carter if he makes another big step forward with his attacking game this year. I don't care who it is provided they bring a hard hitting defense and offense, with at least an acceptable passing game.
- ARU sponsors intensive scrum clinics for identified players of potential at each of the Aussie super teams in partnership with the teams scrum coaches as a coordinated plan
- above repeated annually
- continue our emphasis on aggressive defense, it is and will always be a key facet of the game.
- Wallaby coaching team adopts plays and strays built to foster a one team in support approach. I don't ever want to see our players go wanting for support from a break again. Our forwards need to get much better at bringing pods to a breakdown, and closer support on breaks. This single factor is far and away the biggest reason we lose as often as we do to the blacks.
This last point is crucial, I can't emphasize it enough. We will never consistently beat the blacks without it. Relying on great attacking players is NOT good enough.
Dagg was bloody magic. He made our forwards look useless in defense.
Jane and Dagg were bloody great under the high ball. Cruden fronted up again. Really like that boy.
Now all that said, we had some good stuff. Our defense overall was superb. One try to some Dagg brilliance. Blacks scrambled better against some Ioane brilliance. Having ridden out the first 15 we started to edge into the game and look dangerous when we got the ball. Other good points Cooper played better, and some of his tackles were bloody blinders.
I just wish we hadn't kicked. If Genia never kicked another box kick in that game we'd have been a lot better off. Fair enough try em out, but if you see Jane and Dagg having blinders and the blacks showing superb support, maybe it's a bad time to kick in field. Just a thought.
My point tho, is that it was 1 try nil and right up to the last five we threatened them. We were comprehensively outplayed but it could have been a lot worse.
So, where to?
Setting aside games this year which I'd expect will be largely extensions of the current team, here's my wish list for next year;
- Cooper playing 10 not 10 comes 15
- Beale, Ioane, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at wing/FB.
- O'Connor, McCabe at 12, 13 in super rugby to build skills and see form in both slots.
- Best form Aussie inside centre with a balance of good hard defense and attack gets job. Be aware that could be Carter if he makes another big step forward with his attacking game this year. I don't care who it is provided they bring a hard hitting defense and offense, with at least an acceptable passing game.
- ARU sponsors intensive scrum clinics for identified players of potential at each of the Aussie super teams in partnership with the teams scrum coaches as a coordinated plan
- above repeated annually
- continue our emphasis on aggressive defense, it is and will always be a key facet of the game.
- Wallaby coaching team adopts plays and strays built to foster a one team in support approach. I don't ever want to see our players go wanting for support from a break again. Our forwards need to get much better at bringing pods to a breakdown, and closer support on breaks. This single factor is far and away the biggest reason we lose as often as we do to the blacks.
This last point is crucial, I can't emphasize it enough. We will never consistently beat the blacks without it. Relying on great attacking players is NOT good enough.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
I think McKenzie has an interesting dilemma next year. Clear number 1 priority is to win games, however I do also believe there is some encumberance for every coach to do his best to give his players every opportunity to further their representative ambitions.
In most cases, playing winning rugby is enough - but I wonder if Quade Cooper & Scott Higginbothams ability to develop are both potentially impeded by their roles in the Reds structure.
Cooper is likely to come under increased pressure if he can't defend in the front line, particularly if O'Conner plays at 10 and/or Barnes has an outstanding super 15. For Qld, Cooper defending at 15 means the likes of Lance or Lucas defend in the front line - so the counter attack is strengthened with Cooper back. This is not the case with the Wallabies. Therefore whilst I am sure that both Cooper and McKenzie want him to improve in defence there will most likely to be a lack of imperative to make him defend permanently in the front line.
Higginbotham is seen as having a low work rate and a lack of effectiveness in the tight. I don't see any reason he couldn't mix it in the tight. He is big enough and aggresive. But it would mean changing a strategy that has been working effectively for the Reds. It would be an emphasis on quantity over quality - maybe it would be better, but maybe not.
For that matter I would like to see Alexander spend all next year at tighthead, Beale at fullback and O'Conner at 12 (where I think his long term future will be).
In most cases, playing winning rugby is enough - but I wonder if Quade Cooper & Scott Higginbothams ability to develop are both potentially impeded by their roles in the Reds structure.
Cooper is likely to come under increased pressure if he can't defend in the front line, particularly if O'Conner plays at 10 and/or Barnes has an outstanding super 15. For Qld, Cooper defending at 15 means the likes of Lance or Lucas defend in the front line - so the counter attack is strengthened with Cooper back. This is not the case with the Wallabies. Therefore whilst I am sure that both Cooper and McKenzie want him to improve in defence there will most likely to be a lack of imperative to make him defend permanently in the front line.
Higginbotham is seen as having a low work rate and a lack of effectiveness in the tight. I don't see any reason he couldn't mix it in the tight. He is big enough and aggresive. But it would mean changing a strategy that has been working effectively for the Reds. It would be an emphasis on quantity over quality - maybe it would be better, but maybe not.
For that matter I would like to see Alexander spend all next year at tighthead, Beale at fullback and O'Conner at 12 (where I think his long term future will be).
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
Some Wallaby supporters need to get a bit more real about their expectations of your players.
After two international seasons - the second one being pretty average - but awesome Super Rugby form, some guys were calling Genia the best halfback in the world. Sorry, but he just isn't. On his day he may be. He has the potential to be. But not right now.
People said that the Wallabies couldn't win the RWC without Quade. Now people are saying he should have been dumped for Berrick. Berrick is a pretty solid player but on the international stage, he is hardly a Dan Carter, Johnny Wilkinson or Larkham.
Horne is apparently going to fix everything in the mid-field when he comes good. how many internationals has he played?? 8? 9? Has he cracked double-digits yet?
Too much hope is placed on these guys along with Palu, TPN, Slipper etc but they are still to really prove or show that on an international level, they are in the Top 3 in their position. Consistently Top 3.
Look at the goal kickers. Quade has a good game and folks think he's the man. Then Beale hits a long range shot in SA so he's now the goal kicker. When he has an off night but O'Conner kicks the game winner in Hong Kong then he's the new go-to guy. Let some of these guys grow into being great players who consistently turn up and do the job before thinking they are the next guy to turn the Wallabies around. You only have one guy like that right now and you all know who he is.
After two international seasons - the second one being pretty average - but awesome Super Rugby form, some guys were calling Genia the best halfback in the world. Sorry, but he just isn't. On his day he may be. He has the potential to be. But not right now.
People said that the Wallabies couldn't win the RWC without Quade. Now people are saying he should have been dumped for Berrick. Berrick is a pretty solid player but on the international stage, he is hardly a Dan Carter, Johnny Wilkinson or Larkham.
Horne is apparently going to fix everything in the mid-field when he comes good. how many internationals has he played?? 8? 9? Has he cracked double-digits yet?
Too much hope is placed on these guys along with Palu, TPN, Slipper etc but they are still to really prove or show that on an international level, they are in the Top 3 in their position. Consistently Top 3.
Look at the goal kickers. Quade has a good game and folks think he's the man. Then Beale hits a long range shot in SA so he's now the goal kicker. When he has an off night but O'Conner kicks the game winner in Hong Kong then he's the new go-to guy. Let some of these guys grow into being great players who consistently turn up and do the job before thinking they are the next guy to turn the Wallabies around. You only have one guy like that right now and you all know who he is.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Hopefully he won't have to endure like George Smith in being the only forward to show up at every game...
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
These guys time will come but some of you guys need to be a bit patient.
Aussie really needs an NPC/Currie Cup comp.....
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Unfortunately for Australian rugby the old boys will not allow anything to compete with their precious backyard club competitions...
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
Yes, absolutely agree with that.
T
The Big I
Guest
Could that be because Super is not as good or intense as a full blown international tournment/game and as they say you can not "hide" on a international field. I would say that if NZ or any other team was carrying" a player that can't takle and needs to be hidden we would be attacking that player.
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
I think its because he was not actually hidden in defence at super rugby level. At first maybe, but it soon came to pass that it was in fact better to play him at the back for counter attack reasons.
Futhermore, at the reds it was always a straight swap 15 into 10. At wallabies level it seems moving him involves moving the whole backline into different positions. I mean digby defending the 10 channel - FFS it would confuse any team to have this sort of thing going on. If I was deans I probably would have tried Beale at 10 on defence and quade at 10 on attack. But I also would have had rabs at inside centre, with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) outside him.
I'm not saying it would have worked, because realistically what do I know - but it was never tried so we will never know.
D
DJC
Guest
I've said before but during the Super 15 games I saw there were two things you could rely on Ita Vaea - he was always putting his hand up to truck the ball forward and sometimes his hands let him down a la Timani. As much as I like Wycliff I think he has well and truly had his chance. I also question the fitness or match fitness of TPN. Never really looked himself during the RWC games he played. The other player who I see quite often is Steve Mafi for Leicester, may be he's ineligible but he was an Aus under20. Playing No6 for Leicester certainly seems to have toughened him up. I'm hoping the EPS system give a few more Shute Shield / Bris Premier players a leg up over the next few years. For example I saw some coverage of Koteni Ale, the Manly backrower, and he looked like he had enough mongrel in him to step up if given a chance.
Bon
Ward Prentice (10)
So how does it work in Australia? In NZ we have club rugby. When I played we came from schools to the clubs,and up through the grades,which wasn't always easy competing with others on the way up and struggling against the crafty old buggars who were on their way down.
My first day of school at age five [1945] I remember well being in a great semi circle with other first day boys and having a rugby ball thrown for us to catch.
I prefer to watch our NPC rather than super rugby,it's a great competition.
[Don't know who put that photo thingy there,but I'll have you know I look much younger than that]
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
Well it works in Australia that self interest must always reign supreme over the general health and growth of the game. When someone questions the pathways in Australian rugby you generally get this picking on the private schools line. There seems to be a fear in certain circles of the game expanding away from the niche sport that it is.
The way rugby is intertwined across the whole social and geographic fabric is why NZ is so good at it. I hope we can be like that one day. AFL is the pristine example in Australia as what rugby is in NZ.
The way rugby is intertwined across the whole social and geographic fabric is why NZ is so good at it. I hope we can be like that one day. AFL is the pristine example in Australia as what rugby is in NZ.
Hmmm, not sure about that. Could it be that the one time they tried it they lost millions of dollars and had to can it after a year??
But:
1. Such things work better when there is a proud history and long time supporters. In Australia you are trying to graft a competition onto people.
2. Realistically, there just aren't enough people that watch/play/support rugby in Australia. I am not totally sure about this, but would think it is 4th at best for participation at junior levels (behind AFL, Rugby League and Soccer). And is little more than a blip for probably the most sport mad State of all, Victoria, and way behind League in NSW and Queensland.
I really don't think there is the need for a wholesale cleanout or the doom and gloom response that many rugby fans have had. We had an average RWC which in my opinion came on the back of key players underperforming combined with a few injuries.
It's always going to be difficult when the players who have been stars all season (Genia, Cooper, Moore, Pocock, Beale, Ioane) either significantly underperform or miss key games through injury or both.
It's always going to be difficult when the players who have been stars all season (Genia, Cooper, Moore, Pocock, Beale, Ioane) either significantly underperform or miss key games through injury or both.
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