Shute Shield 2012

[qwerty51]

Did you minus points for some players due to local/siblings?

Timani, Latinipulu

Each should get minus 5 for siblings so 99 from your calculations.

 

[Late Starter]

Did you minus points for some players due to local/siblings?

Timani, Latinipulu

Each should get minus 5 for siblings so 99 from your calculations.

The point value declared should be the value after all those deductions so no further adjustments have to be made to the points totals shown here

http://myrugby.rugby.com.au/myrugby/competitions/game.asp?game=441206&comp=8859&orgid=010100

 

[Tahboy]

I hear Rob Horne is playing for Southern Districts this weekend
It's great to see a player dropped by the Wallabies wanting to get back into club rugby and also shows what good operators the Souths front office is to get him qualified

 

[Intruder]

I hear Rob Horne is playing for Southern Districts this weekend
It's great to see a player dropped by the Wallabies wanting to get back into club rugby and also shows what good operators the Souths front office is to get him qualified

Can someone explain how he has qualified for souths major semi

How can uni 3rd grade have two players that i believe(correct me if im wrong) have just turned up a week or so before the finals, one had previously played stade francais and the other for London Irish, Wasps, Northampton & Newcastle as well as England Saxons (England A) and they are eligible to play finals?

Alex Rokobaro and John Rudd have played more than enough games to qualify for Uni. Rudd has been at the club for over two months playing lower grades and Rokobaro has been a regular for the Students.

 

[sooty]

Your forgetting - Less the Salary Cap (alledged) shenanigan allowance they may have accured.

Dont you think that if they were over the cap the competition would penailise them , like Randwick earlier in the year. The cap is 100 and from what i could see they were at 99 points plus 10 points in reserves. And...what salary cap allowances- what are you eluding to here? what do you know that the rest of the rugby community doesnt know.I also see that Manly have named the hooker as Elvis Tiaone( spelling??) but the Marlins app indicates he is off to France- gee coaches playing ducks and drakes....NEVER!!

 

[Dave Beat]

Dont you think that if they were over the cap the competition would penailise them , like Randwick earlier in the year. The cap is 100 and from what i could see they were at 99 points plus 10 points in reserves. And.what salary cap allowances- what are you eluding to here? what do you know that the rest of the rugby community doesnt know.I also see that Manly have named the hooker as Elvis Tiaone( spelling??) but the Marlins app indicates he is off to France- gee coaches playing ducks and drakes..NEVER!!

In the Salary Cap Shenanigans thread it is alledged that it may have involved players from Southern Districts - I was refering to that, and wondered if it benifited the club in any way through player retention? Just wondered?

Vis going or staying - I'm sure we want him to stay.
Can Cliffy Palu make a comeback as well.

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave I reckon there's value in this and I also note recent posts from Craig Hawkings at Souths. We certainly can't rely on traditional forums such as rugby news ABC and of course the organ of elite rugby the SMH

It was good to get Craig's input, having a delegate from each club, say each profince could be good for the code. I often wonder if the ARU, NSWRU & other provinces look over the good / bad / ugly advice and take any of it on board.
Whether it is stiring a pot, sledging a mate, or providing thoughts for the game - there is some good value in here.

 

[no9]

So where too now for the two Blues
How do they find the 30 points needed to challenge a top 4 side?
They have the good coaching and front office
But they have no quality colts coming through and no lower grade support
So what would there next move be?

Where to now for Randwick.
How do they find the 30 points needed to challenge for 10th place?
They're sacking all the coaches.
Colts had 60 points put on them in a semi.
Club is struggling financially.
Next move. Bag another club and break all the mirrors in own house.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

Rand wick aren't doing to bad a lot of their lower grade teams made finals they will rise again to many powerful alumni for the club to die

 

[the coach]

My understanding is that fresh reserves' points do not count in the finals as it would not be fair on those teams who do not have lower grades playing. The Souths team vs Eastwood were worth 99 points - with an extra 10 on the bench, so they came in under the cap if bench points don't count in the finals. Interesting to see that they have named the same team for this weekend apart from the tight head prop who has been changed. This adds 10 points to the side so as far as I can tell, the team they have named to play manly is worth 109 points.

Yes, I agree with your maths.
I'm not sure how many points Rob Horne has but there is a rumour that he is playing so they may swap him for Pakalani to reduce the points. In the game against Eastwood Metcher replaced Heather very early in the first half which meant that Souths had 109 points on the field for most of the game. Just shows the flaws in the current points system:
(1) only applies to the team that starts the match
(2) in the preliminary rounds a reserve can run on for 1 minute in a lower grade and is then not counted as a fresh reserve

Someone suggested the points should be applied to registrations not the starting team ie the club can only register players up to a certain points total.

 

[Dave Beat]

Yes, I agree with your maths.
I'm not sure how many points Rob Horne has but there is a rumour that he is playing so they may swap him for Pakalani to reduce the points. In the game against Eastwood Metcher replaced Heather very early in the first half which meant that Souths had 109 points on the field for most of the game. Just shows the flaws in the current points system:
(1) only applies to the team that starts the match
(2) in the preliminary rounds a reserve can run on for 1 minute in a lower grade and is then not counted as a fresh reserve

Someone suggested the points should be applied to registrations not the starting team ie the club can only register players up to a certain points total.

Coach, I've been trying to find the point system prior to response.

• I believe there are rebates for years at the club, I believe Rob comes from around that area, played his colts with them, and may almost be 0 points????? I do think that part of the point system is well structured if applied the right way.
• Uni also have had success at recruiting colts from all places and taking advantage of the same rebate system - I do see positives & negatives with this.

Cheers

 

[the coach]

Coach, I've been trying to find the point system prior to response.

• I believe there are rebates for years at the club, I believe Rob comes from around that area, played his colts with them, and may almost be 0 points????? I do think that part of the point system is well structured if applied the right way.
• Uni also have had success at recruiting colts from all places and taking advantage of the same rebate system - I do see positives & negatives with this.

Cheers

The points system for 2012 is in the round 1 Rugby News (pages 20 and 21) which you can access on the Rugby News website.

As an international Horne counts as 20 points but as he has 5 years service at Souths (I think) he qualifies for a 100% points discount so he has 0 points.

So Souths could start him instead of (say) Pakalani to stay below 100 points and then bring Pakalani on to replace Ben Connolly (say) after a few minutes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favour of a points system.
I just think it can be improved and the clubs need to stop trying to find and exploit loop holes in it.
Running a 0 points player on for 10 minutes and then replacing him with a 10 points player to stay under the cap is surely not within the spirit of the system and should not be allowed.

 

[Dave Beat]

As an international Horne counts as 20 points but as he has 5 years service at Souths (I think) he qualifies for a 100% points discount so he has 0 points.
Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favour of a points system.
I just think it can be improved and the clubs need to stop trying to find and exploit loop holes in it.
Running a 0 points player on for 10 minutes and then replacing him with a 10 points player to stay under the cap is surely not within the spirit of the system and should not be allowed.

Coach, totally agree.
I raised the question above - all clubs are at risk of loosing players over seas. Manly (as did other clubs)lost a number last year, Southern made reference to loosing a number this year. If it was NSW, and if it was Southern involved in the alleged Salary Cap Shenanigans - did the club benifit through player retention?

 

[Late Starter]

Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favour of a points system.
I just think it can be improved and the clubs need to stop trying to find and exploit loop holes in it.
Running a 0 points player on for 10 minutes and then replacing him with a 10 points player to stay under the cap is surely not within the spirit of the system and should not be allowed.

I'd suggest that the cap needs to be increased and to include all reserves named for the game, regardless of whether they are fresh or not.

 

[the coach]

I'd suggest that the cap needs to be increased and to include all reserves named for the game, regardless of whether they are fresh or not.

Yes, I agree.
But I still also like the idea of having a points cap on the players registered by the club which may either be instead of the current cap or additional to it.

 

[Tahboy]

Where to now for Randwick.
How do they find the 30 points needed to challenge for 10th place?
They're sacking all the coaches.
Colts had 60 points put on them in a semi.
Club is struggling financially.
Next move. Bag another club and break all the mirrors in own house.

Ryan 09 6 out of 7 sides made the finals 3 sides are still alive
Yes 1st colts had 60 put on them by one side and if you think there are not some good future 1st grade players in that squad think again
All clubs have seasons where a side will struggle and Randwick 1st had there's last year and I think they again might not be a force next year as there has been a bring through youth plan which takes time but I doubt it will be a 26 year plan like parra have been working on

 

[In the know I think.]

The official statement re Rugby News and ABC.

Rugby News
The recent media attention has been created by an unauthorised email; unfortunately no one has bothered to check the facts. The SRU Board is in discussions with Jim Davis of Rugby News and there will be changes to our program in 2013.
There will be a program next year, just not Rugby News in the existing format.

ABCTV
Simily we are in discussions with ABCTV and will be having top level discussions with the ABCTV MD and Head of Sports and Entertainment on their return from the Paralympics.

 

[In the know I think.]

Not sure what the Paralympics has to do with the Shute Shield??

All the decission makers are on a junket in London so are not around to meet.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

I think the final bit in lords article is shit abotu players nto ever having a job. I know that reds players are encouraged to undertake tertiary studies or vocational studies.

Also look at all the players who have retired early to follow other career paths or continue their educations

 

[the coach]

I think the final bit in lords article is shit abotu players nto ever having a job. I know that reds players are encouraged to undertake tertiary studies or vocational studies.

Also look at all the players who have retired early to follow other career paths or continue their educations

Yeah, I agree with you.
But I suspect there's some truth in the fact that clubs paying players is a major cause of the fact that many of the clubs are struggling financially.

Anyone know whether club players in NZ get paid (I suspect not)?