Shute Shield 2011

[lily]

Interesting to see people complaining about Sydney Uni "warehousing talent".

First: mostly, they don't "warehouse" talent, they develop it. Most of their Super Rugby players came through the ranks at Uni (Berrick Barnes being a notable exception).

Secondly, I don't remember complaints of this kind in the 1980s when just about every decent player in Sydney played for Randwick. People went to play there for very good reasons: they had a great set-up, it was fun to play with good players and win competitions, and you had a good chance of being seen by selectors, back when that mattered. And the rest of us running around, at clubs like Sydney uni (where we struggled, badly, at times) thought, wouldn't it be great to be like Randwick.

So why penalise success? Shouldn't the goal be for other clubs in Sydney to lift their game to meet the standard set by Sydney Uni, just as other clubs had to lift to the standard set by Randwick back in the day?

Snort this topic get's raised at least 3 times each season. Once again the Uni guy who has no idea about how much it costs Suburban clubs to run their teams mentions the Randwick teams of the past and then finishes off with why cant they lift their game to meet Uni's level. Next will come the response by all people who dont support Uni mentioning tax payer funded facilities. Then Bruce will jump in and tell us all how the Uni doesn't contribute 1cent to the football program and that they also dont offer scholarships. This will then be argued. This topic is boring and one that we will never agree on because right down to our core we see our viewpoint as being right.

 

[Jnor]

If this was the 80s now and we had GAGR in all its glory I have a sneaking suspicion we would be hearing exactly the same arguments replicated with Randwick in place of Uni in the headline...

 

[Upright]

If this was the 80s now and we had GAGR in all its glory I have a sneaking suspicion we would be hearing exactly the same arguments replicated with Randwick in place of Uni in the headline...

All very true, the variant now though is "professionalism". Randwick (and having played aginst those great sides of the 80's) did have a significant number of NSW/Aust players, but by the same token other teams also had a few so in the main you still felt you were a chance.You did not if I remember correctly have the concept of "fresh reserves" so internationals weren't coming off the bench at half time - unlike what Norths faced on Saturday with Mumm and Dennis appearing at half time. Clubs were ostensibly filled with locals (I wonder if the Ella brothers would have been able to study at UNSW and play at Randwick in this day and age!!!!).Sydney Uni with its 25 contracted Super 15 players allows the pro's to have a good hit out, not be knocked around to much and probably win a comp. Does it add much to rugby sadly not really.

 

[Snort]

Snort this topic get's raised at least 3 times each season. Once again the Uni guy who has no idea about how much it costs Suburban clubs to run their teams mentions the Randwick teams of the past and then finishes off with why cant they lift their game to meet Uni's level.

Easy on the assumptions. For several years I was secretary of a grade cricket club (not Uni). I have a very good idea about how much it costs to run a sporting club at grade level. And I also know that whether you build a successful organisation and strong culture has very little to do with money.

 

[Slash]

agree gnostic, i was at the norths/uni game today and foley was great. ran the game very well. i believe he is on a tahs contract, dont know what contract that is though.

did anyone watch southern play, is there a report on how horne went?

was it norths v uni or norths v Tahs?

 

[AussieDominance]

Easy on the assumptions. For several years I was secretary of a grade cricket club (not Uni). I have a very good idea about how much it costs to run a sporting club at grade level. And I also know that whether you build a successful organisation and strong culture has very little to do with money.

A grade rugby club turns over a lot more than a grade cricket club. You have to remember that Grade Rugby clubs have pavilion's/bar's etc which not many grade cricket clubs do.

 

[AussieDominance]

The other thing I think worth pointing out there is nothing wrong with Warringah's talent. It's just they have the talent and don't have any good first graders in between.

 

[blues recovery]

Just to put some perspective on the discussion, Parra runs its whole Rugby operation on a budget of around 450k per annum. I was told directly from a senior Sydney Uni person that their rugby operating budget is over 1.5 miilion per annum. Whether this comes out of taxpayers pockets or through rich benefactors is irrelevant. This is why the disparity exists. The reality of club rugby financialy is unless you have a profitable licensed club ( Norths, Easts, Eastwood ) or rich benefactors ( Uni, Souths ), you are going to be continually under the pump to compete in this what should be amateur competition. If Parra was somehowe able to find rich benefactors that meant we were able to run the club on a 1.5 million budget we would never lose a junior we wanted to keep and have a much more competitive senior operation. Be interesting to see a chart on games won vs dollars spent across the comp.

 

[blindsider]

Is it true Lachlan Fear dropped his 1st grade captain this week due to him (the captain) telling Fear the boys arent happy with a few things???
Apparently he is meeting with the Easts board tonight....

 

[waves]

Is it true Lachlan Fear dropped his 1st grade captain this week due to him (the captain) telling Fear the boys arent happy with a few things???
Apparently he is meeting with the Easts board tonight....

Theres been a lot of chaos down at Easts this past year they need to sort it out before finals come around.

 

[qwerty51]

was it norths v uni or norths v Tahs?

Well these players played for Uni on Sat so it was practically the Tahs

1. Tilse
2. Roberts
3. Ryan
4. Mumm
5. Vickerman
6. Dennis
7. Waugh
8. McCutcheon
10. Foley
13. Kingston
15. Barnes

 

[Slash]

Just to put some perspective on the discussion, Parra runs its whole Rugby operation on a budget of around 450k per annum. I was told directly from a senior Sydney Uni person that their rugby operating budget is over 1.5 miilion per annum. Whether this comes out of taxpayers pockets or through rich benefactors is irrelevant. This is why the disparity exists. The reality of club rugby financialy is unless you have a profitable licensed club ( Norths, Easts, Eastwood ) or rich benefactors ( Uni, Souths ), you are going to be continually under the pump to compete in this what should be amateur competition. If Parra was somehowe able to find rich benefactors that meant we were able to run the club on a 1.5 million budget we would never lose a junior we wanted to keep and have a much more competitive senior operation. Be interesting to see a chart on games won vs dollars spent across the comp.

Whilst I completely agree with your point, I think you are somewhat dreaming (or maybe it's embellishing) that Parra's budget is 450K. I have it on good authority its more like 200K.........and the leagues club has to take a lot of the blame for the downfall of the club.................

 

[blues recovery]

Sorry Slash your numbers are wrong and dont know who your good authority is but they cant be that good. Your right about the leagues club though.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Just to put some perspective on the discussion, Parra runs its whole Rugby operation on a budget of around 450k per annum. I was told directly from a senior Sydney Uni person that their rugby operating budget is over 1.5 miilion per annum. Whether this comes out of taxpayers pockets or through rich benefactors is irrelevant. This is why the disparity exists. The reality of club rugby financialy is unless you have a profitable licensed club ( Norths, Easts, Eastwood ) or rich benefactors ( Uni, Souths ), you are going to be continually under the pump to compete in this what should be amateur competition. If Parra was somehowe able to find rich benefactors that meant we were able to run the club on a 1.5 million budget we would never lose a junior we wanted to keep and have a much more competitive senior operation. Be interesting to see a chart on games won vs dollars spent across the comp.

You raise a good point about the budgets of clubs, but the experiences of other sports (and rugby in Europe too) is that more money does not necessarily equal success. You can have all the dough you like, but unless you develop a good playing list, are well managed and have good coaches, there will be no sustained success. You might get it for a little while, but not in the long term. Souths must have some issues, because they look like missing the finals this year. If they have plenty of money, it's clearly not translating into success on the paddock and from what I've read, never really has. This isn't a knock on them as a club, just pointing out that a rich benefactor doesn't guarantee success.

Best wishes to the Two Blues as well. I've always had a soft spot for them as a club (might have something to do with supporting the Eels as a youngster too).

 

[waves]

Does anyone know team lineups for this week ? Checked on the Shute Shield website and theres no previews etc ...

 

[Bruce Ross]

University
1. Jeremy Tilse
2. Ben Roberts
3. Paddy Ryan
4. Tom Heslop
5. Sam Carter
6. Dave Dennis
7. David Hickey
8. Pat McCutcheon
9. Matt Schwager (c)
10. Bernard Foley
11. Jacob Taylor
12. Michael Hodge
13. Tom Kingston
14. Greg Jeloudev
15. Berrick Barnes

Reserves:
Nick Phipps
Trent Dyer
Jono Jenkins

 

[Eyes and Ears]

No Mumm or Waugh?

 

[qwerty51]

Mumm was injured last game wasn't he? Something about a rib

 

[Lee Grant]

Anybody know the SD team? I may go to the game if Horne is playing.

 

[Hubstable]

Can anyone tell me if the shield playoffs are on sept 16/17/18? I will only be in town for a few days but was really hoping to make it to a club match before I head over to NZ for theRWC. I just hope the competition hasnt been ended early this year like the ITM cup because of the RWC.

Thanks for any and all help.