Shute Shield 2011

[EVERYFWDTHINKTHEYREA6OR7]

Couldnt agree more, however a reply like that is just passing the buck. Its like saying, yeh the winger was in touch, but hey you missed 2 tackles up the field that put him close to the line in the first place. A response like that clearly does not address the issue that the mistake was made. The missed tackles (or the dropped balls) have nothing to do with the decision. We all make mistakes. Its admitting them, putting processes in place so they dont occur again, and continuing to ensure they dont happen again that is the critical thing here. Players get dropped for making mistakes..............the whistle blowers should too

Yeah but if your player makes one mistake do you drop him? No. There are 15 guys on a park who make mistakes if you are going to point out what the ref is doing wrong then you are not focussing on what the players are doing collectively. Maybe 3 players dropped a ball one time each talk to the coach about ensuring the fundamentals are looked after.

Even if he acknowledges the mistake whats it going to change? Nothing

Then you just have to cross your fingers and hope that the guy they replace is ready for the challenge? Because if you are the one complaining i bet you are the one's who gets the guy promoted from second grade.

Seriously everyone makes mistakes and you get as many bad ones as you do good one's. Sometimes luck comes your way sometimes it doesn't. Control the Controllables people.

ps Not a ref.

 

[lily]

Salesi Manu has decided to leave Manly to go to the Rats. Manly not releasing him apparently as he owes them money.
You didn't have to be nostradamus to see this coming. He has been quite disappointed about being in 2nds.
I think he should have stuck it out but I can understand why he left. Manly already had Faibrother( who is off to Europe), Hegarty, Taione, Aholelei and then they also announce that Jono Owen is returning to his jnr club. The writing has been on the wall for a while. I am only surprised by his club of choice.

 

[high tower]

Lily
As a distant observer it appears like he did his time in and out of 1st grade since school, seems like a few other young guys were found spots in 1sts pack while he was not, having toured with the u/20s Oz team he appears as well or better credentialed than a few who seem to be getting an armchair ride.
Warringah seems like a good choice if your looking for time in 1st grade, which he obviously is.
Where would you have advised him to go?

 

[lily]

I dont think the Rats are a good choice because their forward pack is mostly made up of players, who are very commited, but unfortunately not of first grade standard. One of their props is another ex St Pauls and Manly player Dave Hart. I've known Dave for years and he is a great guy. He was in 3rds at Manly the last couple of seasons.
The Rats pack is made up of alot of last years 2nds team who won the premiership so all of them can play the game. The question is whether they can play it at this level. My only worry for him is that he will not get to showcase his skills in a team and more importantly a pack who are going backwards.
As to where he should go. Well firstly he should stay at Manly and play better. Surely he will learn more from turtle and Tim Lane than the Rats combo. Then at the end of the year reassess his options and try to score an NPC gig.
All the other guys bar Elvis are linked to academies and b teams so I dont know if he was better credentialled as lot of people raved about Eddie Aholelei on this forum last year.
One last thing. Does anyone alse share my concern that how can a team that with the exception of Lui Siale, Chris Cottee and Chris Yarrington are all contracted to a super 15 franchise be no good. I have seen them against Parramatta, Eastwood and Warringah this year and a team that has 4 players from the 2008 Aust schools forward pack as well as a super 15 centre pairing and countless other rep players be of this standard.

 

[Aussie D]

Sorry to say this, but young Rodney has played Aust Schools where he was awarded the Golden Boot, this occured whilst playing in a very successful 2 blue colts eam in 2006. Since then he played for Eastwood, Penrith, Gordon and now he is back at the 2blues. He is a very good footballer but one who has offered his services to the highest bidder for a while.

I stand corrected. Haven't seen enough club rugby games on TV over the years to have noticed him playing. Every time I watch it seems Uni, Easts or Randwick are playing, though Easwood have had quite a few games in the past year or so.

 

[Aussie D]

The Parra 8 was full of running but didnt seem to be at breakdown too often but both Parra flankers looked very capable. Their forward pack was much better than the Gordon forwards but the backs were pedestrian.

I thought his ball running was very poor, too upright and driven back in most tackles. Because of his upright running he turned over the ball at the breakdown on numerous occasions.

 

[high tower]

I think you will find Mark Holmes is still involved as the club coach @ the Rats, and while I know Turtle is well thought of @ Manly, I dont think that Salesi will be any worse off from a coaching point of view. The Rats pack is lacking experience, size and grunt if he can make a difference then his chances of being picked up by Super 15 team(the rebels seem to be the current pathway for Rats) are as good maybe even better than staying @ Manly, who now that his asked to leave has been guaranteed a first grade spot. Pek Cowan, Hugh Pyle, Lipman will make the last Rats pack pretty solid for the back end of the season.
I also didn't notice Dave Hart in firsts for the last weekend, while ex St Pauls boys(since you bring them up) who completed year 12 at the school, generally seem to be getting a good run in Manly's 1sts and 2nds.

 

[xmarksthespot]

Judging from the decision that was made and witnessed by all then he should never do a 1st grade game again...it was that bad. Continue working in the referee ranks but no more 1st grade and especially given no great responsibility of a TMO. That should be the penalty!

 

[DPK]

I stand corrected. Haven't seen enough club rugby games on TV over the years to have noticed him playing. Every time I watch it seems Uni, Easts or Randwick are playing, though Easwood have had quite a few games in the past year or so.

Sure have; I'm a Woodies fan and sometimes even I turn on the SS and think "Egh, T.G again?".

 

[Slash]

Yeah but if your player makes one mistake do you drop him? If it was an absolute howler like what we witnessed on saturday, then yes I'd drop him. But hey, I'm not a coach, have never coached and have no intention of coaching.


No. There are 15 guys on a park who make mistakes if you are going to point out what the ref is doing wrong then you are not focussing on what the players are doing collectively. Maybe 3 players dropped a ball one time each talk to the coach about ensuring the fundamentals are looked after.

Even if he acknowledges the mistake whats it going to change? Nothing

The only thing it will change is the most necessary thing that needs to change.........match official accountability.

Then you just have to cross your fingers and hope that the guy they replace is ready for the challenge? Isn't this a matter for the refereees department and their training program? My understanding is that the refs are ranked at the start of the season. That ranking dictates what grade they ref for the season. So if a ref is dropped for making such a poor decision, he will be replaced by someone of the same ranking at the least.....I'm sure eyes and ears could confirm or correct this though.

Because if you are the one complaining i bet you are the one's who gets the guy promoted from second grade. So be it

Seriously everyone makes mistakes and you get as many bad ones as you do good one's. Sometimes luck comes your way sometimes it doesn't. Control the Controllables people.

ps Not a ref.

Everyone makes mistakes yes, but that is not the issue here. The issue is the accountability for the mistake. I picked up the Sydney Daily Telegraph yesterday and sure enough, there was an article in there how some video ref form the Manly game has been dropped from his duties for a week? So if it can happen at that level, why is it that only excuses are made for rugby refs rather than genuine accountability?

 

[Slash]

Judging from the decision that was made and witnessed by all then he should never do a 1st grade game again...it was that bad. Continue working in the referee ranks but no more 1st grade and especially given no great responsibility of a TMO. That should be the penalty!

Couldnt agree me. Our game is on show case here, and in front of thousands of viewers the poorest video ref decision of any code was made. There must be accountability here.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

So you would recommend a lifetime ban for 1 mistake? I'm not sure that the punishment fits the crime. If this was the case, there wouldn't be any referees left.

 

[Bradley]

The same TMO has been appointed as TMO for the ABC TV match Gordon V Souths. Mediocre mice must rule in referee land.

http://www.waratahs.com.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=WdXk1D8RZWs=&tabid=1323

 

[qwerty51]

So you would recommend a lifetime ban for 1 mistake? I'm not sure that the punishment fits the crime. If this was the case, there wouldn't be any referees left.

TMO mistakes are unforgivable imo. All refs will make mistakes in real-time, 1 view only. TMO's should never make mistakes.

 

[Slash]

So you would recommend a lifetime ban for 1 mistake? I'm not sure that the punishment fits the crime. If this was the case, there wouldn't be any referees left.

I dont recall making comment suggesting a life ban.............if I did in fact do so, then that comment was wrong.

However to answer your question.......no, I wouldnt give a lifetime ban for 1 mistake. I would however, not put the bloke in exactly the same role 7 days later!!! I would stand him down for those duties, tell him why, and make a booking at OPSM for him

 

[Slash]

TMO mistakes are unforgivable imo. All refs will make mistakes in real-time, 1 view only. TMO's should never make mistakes.

Spot on!!

 

[thecow]

Guys for crying out loud it has been 5 days!! To be honest Gordon were the better team on the day. You could say all these things about momentum from getting the try and all that, but that's rugby. The world is not going to end just because of one decision.
Try and focus on the players, I'm pretty sure the referees and the TMO didn't choose to become referees to get on the limelight for a bad mistake.

 

[lily]

Manly's recruitment drive has really annoyed alot of guys who were involved in off season training and are now playing 2nds and thirds.

 

[blues recovery]

Especially when you expect to win and you dont same with Souths , high risk strategy

 

[Done that]

Lily
As a distant observer it appears like he did his time in and out of 1st grade since school, seems like a few other young guys were found spots in 1sts pack while he was not, having toured with the u/20s Oz team he appears as well or better credentialed than a few who seem to be getting an armchair ride.
Warringah seems like a good choice if your looking for time in 1st grade, which he obviously is.
Where would you have advised him to go?

I don't know the details involved here , but the Manly president is quoted as saying that the player owes them a sum of money .A figure of $10 to 15 thousand has been reported.
I would presume that the player has an agreement with the club ,which gives an undertaking to play for Manly for a specific time. Otherwise why would Manly
outlay what is a significant amount in club Rugby terms.
In a contractual agreement both parties have an obligation to honor their stated
undertakings.
It is not uncommon these days for players to accept payments , inducements etc
& then subsequently not honor their part of the agreement.
The majority of clubs , with few exceptions , owe their continued existence to a
hard core group of devotees who spend countless hours , & energy to support their club.This they do with no expectation of financial reward for themselves ,
but simply the hope that their efforts will produce positive results for the club they love.
It is insulting therefore , when players treat a club with disrespect , by taking the money & then running off elsewhere , particularly as much of the money & other resources provided by most clubs for players , is a result of the hard work of the unpaid , hard working , club devotees.
Players who behave thus do not deserve the support of the Rugby community.
As I mentioned above , I do not know the details in this specific case , so I am writing in general terms , but I am inclined to read between the lines , & give some credence to the Manly presidents words.