School sporting scholarships/recruitment
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Muglair
Alfred Walker (16)
Transparency is the key. Without it rumour trumps fact and no one is accountable.
My interest here was sparked by a bloke I played rugby with. For those interested I am a GPS old boy with one son who attended the same school, one at another GPS school (no, before anyone asks, no scholarship, bursary or other inducement) and two friends with sons playing rugby at one of the schools under the microscope.
From my own personal knowledge I can say that some of the facts or obvious "factual" conclusions on this thread are FALSE.
Rugby tradition is a wonderful thing. Just like the quaint distinction between gentlemen and professionals. Rugby League was born from the refusal by people profiting from the game to compensate injured workers who could not work in the owner's businesses.
I personally am quite bitter that the wankers running the sport should dictate that I was unable to play rugby league for fun on a Sunday after playing rugby union for fun on a Saturday. A more serious proposal (misguided in my view) was turned down because I was not going to risk missing my Saturday fun on the basis that AN Other was a sufficient subterfuge.
This whole farce continues to live itself out. Rugby Union is under threat in this country because of the parochialism against sworn enemies in our own competitions, between Shute Shield clubs, between each country region, between each state etc etc. Not to mention influential players in each generation who hate each other. Did I forget incompetent administration, there is not a plan here!
Soccer is slowly awakening (thank God for David Gallup but he might move on), the NRL is seriously getting its shit together, and does anyone need persuading that the AFL is killing us all.
You cannot wind back to the past. The future starts today. The AAGPS is an anachronism and was 35 years ago when I attended school. It has nothing to do with the future of rugby, that is the preserve of the schools and their stakeholder communities.
My interest here was sparked by a bloke I played rugby with. For those interested I am a GPS old boy with one son who attended the same school, one at another GPS school (no, before anyone asks, no scholarship, bursary or other inducement) and two friends with sons playing rugby at one of the schools under the microscope.
From my own personal knowledge I can say that some of the facts or obvious "factual" conclusions on this thread are FALSE.
Rugby tradition is a wonderful thing. Just like the quaint distinction between gentlemen and professionals. Rugby League was born from the refusal by people profiting from the game to compensate injured workers who could not work in the owner's businesses.
I personally am quite bitter that the wankers running the sport should dictate that I was unable to play rugby league for fun on a Sunday after playing rugby union for fun on a Saturday. A more serious proposal (misguided in my view) was turned down because I was not going to risk missing my Saturday fun on the basis that AN Other was a sufficient subterfuge.
This whole farce continues to live itself out. Rugby Union is under threat in this country because of the parochialism against sworn enemies in our own competitions, between Shute Shield clubs, between each country region, between each state etc etc. Not to mention influential players in each generation who hate each other. Did I forget incompetent administration, there is not a plan here!
Soccer is slowly awakening (thank God for David Gallup but he might move on), the NRL is seriously getting its shit together, and does anyone need persuading that the AFL is killing us all.
You cannot wind back to the past. The future starts today. The AAGPS is an anachronism and was 35 years ago when I attended school. It has nothing to do with the future of rugby, that is the preserve of the schools and their stakeholder communities.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Enjoy your meal. (I mean that sincerely, I'm not being smart)
I take a break from this thread every so often too in the interests of sanity.
Muglair
Alfred Walker (16)
Also unfit to sit the HSC next week. Correction to ambiguous post.
What is done for the future of rugby is independent from what the schools do, vice versa etc etc
GPSrow
Watty Friend (18)
I am happily going to play for the Gordon Highlanders in fact. Either that or Eastwood where the rugby blood runs thick.
GPSrow
Watty Friend (18)
How about we stop lampooning GPSRow - he has a view like all of us! The exams start on Monday and I would like to think a little encouragement would be good.
Good luck to all the lads sitting the HSC and IB over the next few weeks!
I think they have overshadowed my use of Italy instead of Mexico.
GPSrow
Watty Friend (18)
Thank for voicing your opinion. I may use you as my related text. Conflicting perspective perhaps. Whatever?
wreckless
Bob Loudon (25)
You will go OK Grasshopper! And remember Luke ( aka GPSRow ) - may the Force be with you over the next few weeks!!!
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Only some?
Which ones?
whatever
Darby Loudon (17)
You may.
A little bit of work required on your usage of "there" and "their".
All the best in the exams.
Muglair
Alfred Walker (16)
IS:
Only some? Only the ones I know about. So I suppose on a random sampling basis maybe every rumour on here is BS.
Which ones? I am not going to feed the flames, the listing and naming of boys in this thread for the purposes of speculation and innuendo is not appropriate in my view. But the names are listed and speculated upon and I am just saying the innuendo and speculation about those boys is incorrect.
At least some good news for youth development this morning as soccer again drops the ball, proving they should not be trying to pick it up in the first place I suppose.
Only some? Only the ones I know about. So I suppose on a random sampling basis maybe every rumour on here is BS.
Which ones? I am not going to feed the flames, the listing and naming of boys in this thread for the purposes of speculation and innuendo is not appropriate in my view. But the names are listed and speculated upon and I am just saying the innuendo and speculation about those boys is incorrect.
At least some good news for youth development this morning as soccer again drops the ball, proving they should not be trying to pick it up in the first place I suppose.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
To some extent you are right in saying that the AAGPS is an anachronism, but it's a voluntary association, so it's open to any of the schools to leave at any time it they feel that membership no longer meets their needs. No school is forced to remain a member, the fact that each school continues their membership would indicate that they think it's worthwhile to do so.
It should also be noted that AAGPS is about more than rugby and it's actually the role of the ARU to develop the future of rugby not the AAGPS.
If any school feels so strongly that they can't continue their membership, they would leave - but I bet that none of them do.
Quick Hands – I agree fully with your above post – and add the following....
Get off GPSRow’s back people – or anybody else that makes a spelling or geographical error – this is a Scholarship thread – does a spelling error warrant comment! And NO I am not pro Newington.
I am Pro GPS and everything that it stands for and the opportunity’s that it can provide for every boy that attends a GPS School – Scots and Newington are placing these ideals at risk.
It is NOT the responsibility of the GPS Schools to help Australian Rugby – they have been doing a good job however as they have provided close to 25% of all Wallabies (Joeys approx 7% on their own). GPS Schools have an obligation to their students – nothing more.
Yes, it is true that many Schools have been doing ‘it’ for years (Are Joeys the world’s largest hypocrite for complaining?) However nobody (with the possible exception of Scots 93) have ever gone as far as New and Scots have in the last few years. They are a member of an exclusive group (GPS) and both agreed to adhere to the rules of that group as voted by a clear majority of its members – the position should be clear - follow the rules or leave the group!! They can call for a vote to change the rules to the set they currently operate under – but clearly that ‘vote’ will not achieve majority support.
As for FACTS – it is a fact the Scots and New have gone too far – I am mystified how anybody can argue otherwise. Parachuting in almost full teams in years 9, 10 & 11 (cumulative) is both offensive, a breach of duty to the boys, and a breach of the rules of the AAGPS. It is NOT rumour – it is fact. Lambert’s ridiculous bursary and non sporting ‘recruitment’ argument is just that – ridiculous!
Get off GPSRow’s back people – or anybody else that makes a spelling or geographical error – this is a Scholarship thread – does a spelling error warrant comment! And NO I am not pro Newington.
I am Pro GPS and everything that it stands for and the opportunity’s that it can provide for every boy that attends a GPS School – Scots and Newington are placing these ideals at risk.
It is NOT the responsibility of the GPS Schools to help Australian Rugby – they have been doing a good job however as they have provided close to 25% of all Wallabies (Joeys approx 7% on their own). GPS Schools have an obligation to their students – nothing more.
Yes, it is true that many Schools have been doing ‘it’ for years (Are Joeys the world’s largest hypocrite for complaining?) However nobody (with the possible exception of Scots 93) have ever gone as far as New and Scots have in the last few years. They are a member of an exclusive group (GPS) and both agreed to adhere to the rules of that group as voted by a clear majority of its members – the position should be clear - follow the rules or leave the group!! They can call for a vote to change the rules to the set they currently operate under – but clearly that ‘vote’ will not achieve majority support.
As for FACTS – it is a fact the Scots and New have gone too far – I am mystified how anybody can argue otherwise. Parachuting in almost full teams in years 9, 10 & 11 (cumulative) is both offensive, a breach of duty to the boys, and a breach of the rules of the AAGPS. It is NOT rumour – it is fact. Lambert’s ridiculous bursary and non sporting ‘recruitment’ argument is just that – ridiculous!
Muglair
Alfred Walker (16)
With due deference to The Runner we are back to my first post.
An organisation cannot claim the high moral ground just because they decide a couple of members have drifted lower than anyone else. As the ban proponents keep saying the rules are black & white and the AAGPS has squibbed on its responsibility to hold members accountable.
This whole concept of trying to judge who and when and what is "too far" is just a recipe for the whole mess to continue. As some wise person here said, what sort of example is this to set for the boys. Ethics is about doing the right thing when nobody is looking. If schools are breaking the rules and everyone knows about it who is really more guilty, those breaking them or those turning a blind eye.
We will have to wait on a report of the facts from Scots and see how the other schools react. While some of you may be cynical that the facts in the report commissioned by Scots will not be true it then places the onus back on the other schools to commission their own investigation and probably also necessitate opening their own books as well.
Time will tell if Lambert has the support of his Council and the wider school body both in respect of whatever scholarship/bursary scheme is in place and in then holding the line against the other schools and risking expulsion from the GPS. It will then be interesting to see if the other Principals are similarly supported by their own school bodies in expelling Scots.
The summer break promises to be more interesting than usual.
An organisation cannot claim the high moral ground just because they decide a couple of members have drifted lower than anyone else. As the ban proponents keep saying the rules are black & white and the AAGPS has squibbed on its responsibility to hold members accountable.
This whole concept of trying to judge who and when and what is "too far" is just a recipe for the whole mess to continue. As some wise person here said, what sort of example is this to set for the boys. Ethics is about doing the right thing when nobody is looking. If schools are breaking the rules and everyone knows about it who is really more guilty, those breaking them or those turning a blind eye.
We will have to wait on a report of the facts from Scots and see how the other schools react. While some of you may be cynical that the facts in the report commissioned by Scots will not be true it then places the onus back on the other schools to commission their own investigation and probably also necessitate opening their own books as well.
Time will tell if Lambert has the support of his Council and the wider school body both in respect of whatever scholarship/bursary scheme is in place and in then holding the line against the other schools and risking expulsion from the GPS. It will then be interesting to see if the other Principals are similarly supported by their own school bodies in expelling Scots.
The summer break promises to be more interesting than usual.
I agree fully
They need to reaffirm the current rules OR write some new (black & white) ones and then each and every school needs to adhere to them - no exceptions. See my post 3037 for my suggested 'new' rules.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Really?
This takes the cake.
Do you really live in a moral vacuum,and have no sense of right and wrong at all?
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Again, this assumes that "the other schools" don't have choices.
They can apply whatever standard of proof they like and rely on hearsay or any other evidence that takes their fancy and then do whatever they want.
A lot of trust has been spent in order for this to come to a head.
Can't see how, students starting in year 9,10 or 11 is big issue, that is still quite enough years in a school to feel part of it. Or can only the rich parents who can afford to pay GPS fees from grade 7,8 etc get their kids position in the firsts. Half the time waiting lists also mean a student can't get into a school till later years also. Best players should be in firsts full stop- who wants to win games by playing second rate teams, can't see how that is good for competition or school spirit. And believe it or not kids might want to change schools for a reason other then sport(but should that mean they then miss out on playing firsts if they move to a school that gives them other opportunities they prefer, or they moved closer to another school and it makes it easier on family to change schools)
Life is always about competing with new people, and finding out some people might be better then yourself- might as well get use to disappointments in school, or take on the challenge and win if you can. And learn if you can't win, then don't complain about people who can, compete harder and congratulate your better opponents- build some real character