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Saru & Hoskins show some real Balls and dosh Sanzar!

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the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
What you have to remember is that PB is old school South African and they like to play with themselves. Whoops i meant by themselves.

I think many Saffas would say that in an ideal world they would play their own domestic competitions and then have a big inbound tour every 2 years where touring international teams play all their local teams and then a test series and then vice versa every other year. I actually like the sound of that as well because then we would only have to put up with them every 4 years.

Having such an inward look is going to hurt them in the long run and while it will hurt the bottom line of the ARU i dont think we should stand in their way if that is what they want.
 
D

daz

Guest
Also, believe it or not, the world is bigger than Australia.

Let's just say for a moment that SA is on the outer.

I reckon a few Rugby Unions around the world will find ways to accommodate a player or six.

I know where you are coming from Blue, and I'm not having a go at you personally, but what you are saying above (edited by me) seems to be that you are ok with the Bokke squad splitting up and playing all over the world and gathering back for tours/tournaments. That can't be your preferred option!

I think this is all hot air but gee it got some reactions....!
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
I know where you are coming from Blue, and I'm not having a go at you personally, but what you are saying above (edited by me) seems to be that you are ok with the Bokke squad splitting up and playing all over the world and gathering back for tours/tournaments. That can't be your preferred option!

I think this is all hot air but gee it got some reactions....!

Certainly is not my preferred option but the lager mentality from SARU gives me the shits.

I am South African but I get pissed off at SARUs petulance.

The kid who cried wolf eventually got eaten.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
What you have to remember is that PB is old school South African and they like to play with themselves. Whoops i meant by themselves.
Nothing wrong with a little play now and then but you digress.

Seriously most Saffers don't share that view. Not in the slightest. People love the Super 14 and especially when SA do well. Most Currie Cup rugby except the big games only start to pull crowds late in the season.

So by far the majority of fans are not inward looking. Not in the slightest.
 

the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
Thanks Blue. But when I said Old School I meant those that hadnt moved on and seen there is a world outside Africa. There are some in Australia who would like to go back to having a club comp, two state games and then a couple of international games each year. We are just lucky we don't have those people running our National board.
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
Nothing wrong with a little play now and then but you digress.

Seriously most Saffers don't share that view. Not in the slightest. People love the Super 14 and especially when SA do well. Most Currie Cup rugby except the big games only start to pull crowds late in the season.

So by far the majority of fans are not inward looking. Not in the slightest.

Actually - and I may well start a shit-storm here, but who cares - I'd say SA fans are less insular than Aussie ones, by and large. Certainly have a larger awareness of NH rugby. Whereas if you look at a lot of the coverage and discussion - this place being a noticeable standout - Australian rugby really doesn't seem to realise that the rest of the world has very different fish to fry.

To take but one example; in the rest of the world, league's dead. No-one gives a fuck about it. Whereas from an Australian perspective, it's the major issue; and yet, the coverage in Australia seems to assume that everyone world-wide should be all hot and bothered about a game that doesn't even feature on the radar of the rest of world rugby.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Thomond the issue you raised is exactly right but requires analysis of the reasons for it. It isn't that Australian Rugby fans are willingly ignorant. We see pretty much zero NH Rugby in Oz. Even with pay TV unless you go and buy the Setanta option for extra dosh (which for many like me is just a bridge too far). Into that semi vaccuum comes League which is free to air, plastered constantly on the League Owners Newspapers and TV stations and radio. We never hear about the NH Rugby even the 6N and Heiniken Cup finals get no coverage here and the truly dedicated fans have to troll the Interweb to get the results. No pubs or Clubs have Setanta so no chance of watching it there.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
I hate agreeing with Keo but have to:
http://www.keo.co.za/2010/08/16/boks-going-nowhere-soon/#more-66868

MARK KEOHANE writes that the Springboks will never split from Sanzar.

Every second year, when the moans start and the groans become louder and South African rugby’s administrators insecurities are at their most obvious, one of the emotionally vulnerable suits at the South African Rugby Union tells a media mate that South Africa is looking at alternatives to the Sanzar alliance with Australia and New Zealand.

New Zealand and Australia then react, there is a conference call and a statement is then drafted with all three nations telling each other just how important one is to the other, how good each is and how Super Rugby and Tri-Nations are the best rugby competitions in the world.

The Tri-Nations will become the Four Nations (unless someone clever comes up with a tournament name) and Super 14 is Super 15 as of 2011.

Leaving Sanzar is not as easy as it seems. I know because I was among a study group that did a heck of a lot of research into the possibility a couple of years ago. The lack of a global season is the first stumbling block and the Northern Hemisphere would only accommodate South Africa if all the compromise was made by South Africa, whose provincial unions aren’t prepared to change their season to play in the north.

Plans were at an advanced stage a couple of years ago to put together a tournament that would kill off Super rugby, with the top clubs from England, France and South Africa the alternative to Super Rugby. New Zealand and Australia would then play their own competition. The idea never left the boardroom as the Celtic nations insisted on loyalty from the French and English to the concept of the European Cup and, in the case of the latter, other tournaments.

And so it went, at provincial, regional and national level.

The broadcast market in the UK is already saturated with all the other sporting events. South Africa’s administrators live in a dream world when they should be appreciating the dream world that is the Sanzar alliance. Where it always gets complicated, and it is always South Africa threatening to leave, is because we have administrators so decidedly inferior to the New Zealanders and Australians.

Our boys get steamrolled in negotiations and Australian CEO John O’Neill would have a tougher time clubbing a baby seal than he would getting his way in round table talks that add to the strength of Sanzar, even if it comes at the expense of South Africa.

When Saru board member Jan Marais told a journalist that the administration had requested a task team to explore possibilities of alternatives, there was a qualifier. He said that it was an obvious exercise to do a couple of years out from any further broadcast negotiations. Saru president Regan Hoskins added the Sanzar alliance was strong, but that debate would always be robust and because this ‘robust debate’ had been made public did not mean there was any ill-feeling.

Questions have subsequently been asked in Australia and New Zealand as to which way South Africa will jump? There is nowhere to go. South Africa is entrenched in Sanzar and the only reason perception is so strong that South Africa is prejudiced is because of South Africa’s weak leadership and lack of presence at the table.

Stronger administration, with an emphasis on substance and not paranoia, would immediately redress any power imbalance. Quality individuals lead to quality leadership.

Then there’s the broadcast deal. The broadcasters determine the strength of the alliance, and not one of South Africa, Australia or New Zealand is stronger on its own. The one needs the other two to strengthen any broadcast deal.

I have always wanted South Africa to play in the north. There is a time difference of an hour to two, an overnight flight is as hectic as it gets in travel demands and there would be so much more variety playing in Europe than against the same old from Australia and New Zealand.

In theory a move makes so much sense, but practically it is impossible to structure.

In the meantime let’s hope South Africa’s administration gets a stronger because that will at least ensure less of a whipping at the boardroom table, which is all this really is about … South Africa’s pathetic admin boys asking for the bullying to stop and threatening to take the ball home if the Kiwis and Aussies don’t stop calling them ugly names and taking their milk money.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Actually - and I may well start a shit-storm here, but who cares - I'd say SA fans are less insular than Aussie ones, by and large. Certainly have a larger awareness of NH rugby. Whereas if you look at a lot of the coverage and discussion - this place being a noticeable standout - Australian rugby really doesn't seem to realise that the rest of the world has very different fish to fry.

To take but one example; in the rest of the world, league's dead. No-one gives a fuck about it. Whereas from an Australian perspective, it's the major issue; and yet, the coverage in Australia seems to assume that everyone world-wide should be all hot and bothered about a game that doesn't even feature on the radar of the rest of world rugby.

You've lost me, Thomo. What coverage are you talking about? The League "media" here plays to the local mungoes. When and how do they try to reach out to the world - they're not that far-thinking!? In cities where League is the big sport, they occupy top spot, in others it's AFL. Why would electronic and print media pitch to a market they don't want or care about - local rugby fans? I don't give a fuck about League, but I can understand why their media unit are what they are.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
You've lost me, Thomo. What coverage are you talking about? The League "media" here plays to the local mungoes. When and how do they try to reach out to the world - they're not that far-thinking!? In cities where League is the big sport, they occupy top spot, in others it's AFL. Why would electronic and print media pitch to a market they don't want or care about - local rugby fans? I don't give a fuck about League, but I can understand why their media unit are what they are.

Cyclo can I ask you this. Don't you think there is some truth in the first paragraph of T78's post. ie forget about league. Do you completely disagree with this statement?
Actually - and I may well start a shit-storm here, but who cares - I'd say SA fans are less insular than Aussie ones, by and large. Certainly have a larger awareness of NH rugby. Whereas if you look at a lot of the coverage and discussion - this place being a noticeable standout - Australian rugby really doesn't seem to realise that the rest of the world has very different fish to fry.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Hey guys - some playing the man not the ball going on here. Paarl is allowed to express any opinion he wants about this. We're allowed to argue but none of this "trolling" stuff. And whoever said - why post this on an Aussie site - must be joking. South Africa leaving SANZAR isn't an Aussie rugby issue?

Now - back to making fun of SARU.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Cyclo can I ask you this. Don't you think there is some truth in the first paragraph of T78's post. ie forget about league. Do you completely disagree with this statement?

No, I don't completely disagree. I had no argument with that point. I actually was not sure what he meant about the "coverage"? I can't quite work out what any media coverage here, and its obsession with League, has to do with this thread. I was hoping for some clarification.
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
You've lost me, Thomo. What coverage are you talking about? The League "media" here plays to the local mungoes. When and how do they try to reach out to the world - they're not that far-thinking!? In cities where League is the big sport, they occupy top spot, in others it's AFL. Why would electronic and print media pitch to a market they don't want or care about - local rugby fans? I don't give a fuck about League, but I can understand why their media unit are what they are.

What I meant is that even rugby is very often discussed, even in the rugby press, with respect to mungoball rather than as rugby on its own merits. (and it was a genuine mystery to me how much coverage of mungoball there was - hell, reporting on boofball is only duplication of the police and court reports pages, anyway).

It's mystifying why it's done like that, and it's something that has even cropped up in ARU negotiations and discussions with those outside Australia. It would be like us discussing everything in world rugby, home and abroad, in terms of the GAA's market share. I mean, I can understand it being of concern locally, but outside Australia, it's a non-issue; so the way that sometimes the ARU do bring it up in the international arena is very insular in that regard.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
What I meant is that even rugby is very often discussed, even in the rugby press, with respect to mungoball rather than as rugby on its own merits. (and it was a genuine mystery to me how much coverage of mungoball there was - hell, reporting on boofball is only duplication of the police and court reports pages, anyway).

It's mystifying why it's done like that, and it's something that has even cropped up in ARU negotiations and discussions with those outside Australia. It would be like us discussing everything in world rugby, home and abroad, in terms of the GAA's market share. I mean, I can understand it being of concern locally, but outside Australia, it's a non-issue; so the way that sometimes the ARU do bring it up in the international arena is very insular in that regard.

Ah! Thank you, grasshopper. I see the heavenly glory.
Yes, that is odd.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
No, I don't completely disagree. I had no argument with that point. I actually was not sure what he meant about the "coverage"? I can't quite work out what any media coverage here, and its obsession with League, has to do with this thread. I was hoping for some clarification.

It is relevant in relation to comment regarding the insular nature of the Oz Rugby supporter it is relevant as I posted. We really have limited access to any NH rugby. The Media in all forms in NSW and Qld especially saturate the market place with "advertising" for the game they currently own. Mid week there is next to no comment or coverage on Rugby in Oz let alone anything else and even the Monday Sydney papers have no coverage at all (apart from a very small results section) on the Shute Shield.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Is it the Oz rugby supporter, or the media that is insular? I would watch NH rugby, if it came with my (already bloody expensive) Fox subscription - say a good HEC and 6N package. I like watching the NPC, don't watch much CC but mainly time difference. I generally ignore most of our media - you can find out much more here.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
No, I don't completely disagree. I had no argument with that point. I actually was not sure what he meant about the "coverage"? I can't quite work out what any media coverage here, and its obsession with League, has to do with this thread. I was hoping for some clarification.

Dude. He's Irish. :)
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Nothing wrong with a little play now and then but you digress.

Seriously most Saffers don't share that view. Not in the slightest. People love the Super 14 and especially when SA do well. Most Currie Cup rugby except the big games only start to pull crowds late in the season.

So by far the majority of fans are not inward looking. Not in the slightest.
Interesting view from you? Which S14 matches draw the biggest crowds in SA and why did the wise admins of Super Rugby decided on a three conferense home and away S15?

Currie Cup is well and alive in SA, 47,850 supporters on saturday on Newlands, Where do you get this outside SA in S14 rugby?

You obvious forgot about the U19 and U21 CC competition. That one is the breeding ground of our game, Scrapped them and we'll end up with a host of schoolboy talent going oversea for a rugby future.

I'll state it again or misinform you, cut this two leagues and our rugby is dead meat.
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
Is it the Oz rugby supporter, or the media that is insular? I would watch NH rugby, if it came with my (already bloody expensive) Fox subscription - say a good HEC and 6N package. I like watching the NPC, don't watch much CC but mainly time difference. I generally ignore most of our media - you can find out much more here.

You don't need Setanta to see French Top 14. Eurosport, which I think is part of the basic sports package, show half an hour of highlights and two games each week. Last year they also ran some Heineken games later in the competition too. Doesn't affect the basic thrust of the main argument but Fox, despite being a bunch of illegitimates, are showing more than just SA and NZ games here.
 
H

H...

Guest
Acrossthetasman isn't a bad place to get your NH rugby fix. Obviously not live, but live isn't real convenient anyway.
 
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