S15: Australia dont have depth

[suckerforred]

Numbers don't equate to depth. Depth comes from a combination of numbers, very good coaches and talent ID at say 12 to 16 years of age to start with, and strong pathways that actually involve playing the game to strengthn and hone skills, not stuck away in academies holding tackle bags, strong administrations that have the right aspirations for the prospective code, rather than as has been seen in rugby at times, very personal agendas. I actually wrote a pretty long piece on it but decided not to bore you all, but don't be fooled into thinking that numbers equal depth. Get each piece right, and you have depth, in broad terms.

Point taken. I gess I should have said 'potiential' depth. Did you realise that you wre describing the ARU there?

 

[spooony]

You right Bruce. It seems to have turned into a 'who has the least performing to potiential' thread.

Don't give a rats what the SA's say, the fact that they have 100 x the players that Oz has means that they have more depth. The fact that they con not perform with that depth is an entirely different discussion. As is the discussion about Australia seeming to punch above it weight when it comes to sport.

No. Australia might not have many but what they have they look after with great care. Meaning we might have a x100 more players but do we look after them? No we look only after a select few. That is why we are doing the roller coaster thing in International Rugby

 

[PaarlBok]

Brutes vs Sharks a sold out for SA first match:

The Sharks and Bulls Vodacom teams to play before the S15 teams:
Brutes Vodacom team:
Jurgen Visser, Sampie Mastriet, Ulrich Beyers, Lionel Cronjé (v/c), Courtnall Skosan, Tony Jantjies, Ruan Snyman, Jono Ross, Jean Cook, Warwick Tecklenburg, Cornell Hess, Gerrit-Jan van Velze (c), Rayno Gerber, Bongi Mbonambi, Dawie Steyn.

Replacements: Robbie Coetzee, Vincent Koch, Louis Alberts, Franco Mostert, Rudi van Rooyen, Wesley Dunlop, Jean du Plessis, Clayton Blommetjies, Schalk van Heerden, Lean Schwartz, Daniel Adongo

The Sharks XV

1. Danie Mienie 2. Monde Hadebe 3. Nick Schonert 4. Pieter-Steph du Toit 5. Jandre Marais 6. Francois Kleinhans 7. Brynard Stander 8. Tera Mtembu 9. Cobus Reinach 10. Fred Zeilinga 11. Rosco Speckman 12. Heimar Williams 13. Wandile Mjekevu 14. S'buru Sithole 15. Gouws Prinsloo

Replacements
16. Kyle Cooper 17. Alan Dell 18. Peet Marais 19. Chris Cloete 20. Shannon Rick 21. Piet Lindeque 22. Jaco van Tonder 23. Jors Danhauser
Same thing as the WP vs Griquas match.

I see in NZ they have franchises developement matches for the S15 outsiders in their teams. NZ is a bit best in quality. Only reason for that is their way of contracting. They spread their top players over their franchises and something SA cant do. All our players have provincial contracts and because of that we dont have our top 120 players in S15 rugby.

 

[PaarlBok]

Schalk van Heerden in the Brutes team is Wikus smaller boet and youngest son of Moaner. Huge lock, played for Affies.

 

[kiap]

Only reason for that is their way of contracting. They spread their top players over their franchises and something SA cant do. All our players have provincial contracts and because of that we dont have our top 120 players in S15 rugby.

OomPB, good point on the contracting system. NZ's system has some advantages. How does this affect Springbok selections, though? Say in the last five or ten years, how many Boks have been selected that were not playing in a super rugby side?

 

[spooony]

OomPB, good point on the contracting system. NZ's system has some advantages. How does this affect Springbok selections, though? Say in the last five or ten years, how many Boks have been selected that were not playing in a super rugby side?

Look at the shitty teams Snor De Villiers usually sent over to Europe during November and you will find a lot of them as those were selected from the Currie Cup teams not S15.

There is no Stormers or other franchises in the Currie Cup. Only rebranded Provinces and the only one who never changed their name or add some stupid wildlife behind it and that is Western Province.

 

[kiap]

Look at the shitty teams Snor De Villiers usually sent over to Europe during November and you will find a lot of them as those were selected from the Currie Cup teams not S15.

You mean these guys?

719 Deon Stegmann (24)
720 Keegan Daniel (25)
721 Patrick Lambie (20)
722 Willem Alberts (26)
723 Lwazi Mvovo (24)

 

[spooony]

You mean these guys?

719 Deon Stegmann (24)
720 Keegan Daniel (25)
721 Patrick Lambie (20)
722 Willem Alberts (26)
723 Lwazi Mvovo (24)

Go here
http://www.espnscrum.com/southafrica/rugby/player/caps.html?team=5

Then look at all the November dates. That is the date they won their first cap. You can start from 97 or later but you will get roughly a idea what players was chosen due to good performances in the Currie Cup. If they did well in the SuperRugby competition then they would have made their debuts earlier around June. Simple

 

[kiap]

Go here
http://www.espnscrum.com/southafrica/rugby/player/caps.html?team=5

Then look at all the November dates. That is the date they won their first cap. You can start from 97 or later but you will get roughly a idea what players was chosen due to good performances in the Currie Cup. If they did well in the SuperRugby competition then they would have made their debuts earlier around June. Simple

Did it before you even posted; going back 5 years to Nov 2007. As far as I make it, only 1 player newly capped in those years had not been in a super rugby squad beforehand. Happy to stand corrected on this, as always.

Obviously players were selected later in the year from CC because S14 always finished earlier in the year. But, with the odd exception, SARU preferred players who had previously been in Super Rugby.

 

[spooony]

Did it before you even posted; going back 5 years to Nov 2007. As far as I make it, only 1 player newly capped in those years had not been in a super rugby squad beforehand. Happy to stand corrected on this, as always.

Obviously players were selected later in the year from CC because S14 always finished earlier in the year. But, with the odd exception, SARU preferred players who had previously been in Super Rugby.

Bryan Habana did not play Super Rugby

End of the year tours has become a joke as they seem to use it for development rather than anything else

 

[PaarlBok]

OomPB, good point on the contracting system. NZ's system has some advantages. How does this affect Springbok selections, though? Say in the last five or ten years, how many Boks have been selected that were not playing in a super rugby side?

Jake White and Snor were way to conservative to try players outside the SupeRugby frame. They stick with their players and it will be interesting to see Meyer going about his business. Being very strong on structure I cant see him doing something different.

 

[spooony]

Jake White and Snor were way to conservative to try players outside the SupeRugby frame. They stick with their players and it will be interesting to see Meyer going about his business. Being very strong on structure I cant see him doing something different.

Snor did nothing. He piggy backed on Jake White's foundation till the players got to old and he did not know what to do. He failed

 

[dobduff11]

Snor did nothing. He piggy backed on Jake White's foundation till the players got to old and he did not know what to do. He failed

He made many of us chuckle along the way though!! This was a classic...

 

[Brisbok]

He made many of us chuckle along the way though!!

...and he made us grind our teeth!

 

[spooony]

.... and made us pull our hair out!

 

[PaarlBok]

Naas and Kobus had Meyer on their Kyknet show last night. Must say he impressed me in the way he want to take the Bokke further. I do think he will stick with his squad and wont just change for the sake of change. Naas ask him about his selection process for the Bokke and his reply was that he look further then just player performance on the field. He is very strict on dissipline on and off the field and look at the player as a person aswell. He wants players that will go to war with him and those who thrives in BMT and pressure. Seems just fine by me.

 

[Brisbok]

Any further word on his Assistants or other coaching staff PB?

 

[PaarlBok]

No word yet Boet.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Meyer running the Boks scares the shit out of me as a Wallaby supporter. He's absolutely top drawer.

 

[PaarlBok]

Meyer running the Boks scares the shit out of me as a Wallaby supporter. He's absolutely top drawer.

He did mentioned an interesting point. England to SA is pretty much war talk to us and he was worried about only having a week to prepare the Bokke for the war. He do have a very good relation with the SA S15 coaches and will need their help to be successfull.

Also mentioned the lack of tries in round 1 is due to the amount of derbies. Those are the games all coaches just want to get a win and is much more conservative in their approach. Also a big differense between the NH and SH way of reffing and wont help him.