RWC - Wallabies v Ireland - 17th September 2011

[fatprop]

Barnes has been playing for Syd Uni for weeks (and playing well), guys like Nau & Palu were risks if starting, they were impact units to me, why Nau wasn't given a rest just baffles me 80 minutes for a hooker?

 

[Sluggy]

Guys, just re BB. Aren't we falling into the unjustified optimism trap re all these 'just returning' players? We have watched Rocky take, what, 4-5 Tests to get back to 'acceptable but not stellar' form (and he went downhill v Ireland). TPN: he was a shadow of his 2011 Tahs best form on Saturday and his old throwing problems returned, yes?

The point being: won't it take BB and Drew etc at least 2-3 Tests to (hopefully) get back to a level that's equal to the best we've seen from them in the last two years? Are there not potentially some echoes of 1995 here?

Or are you saying the downside risks of sticking with McCabe at 12 is simply greater than that of having BB back and waiting for him to recover Test match fitness?

I'm saying start them in the next game, and we are back at the backline that put 60 points on the French last year. Start them again v Russia and by the QF BB should be fine.

 

[Lee Grant]

I think we have to try something different. If our forwards get beaten and we have to make do with backfoot ball, McCabe and Fainga'a offer nothing. We're left looking for miracle plays from QC (Quade Cooper) and KB (Kurtley Beale).

Having a 12 who can direct the game better and play far better territory gives us something better than the crash ball that just doesn't work if our forwards are going backwards.

We need to be able to still compete if our forwards are being outplayed.

There's not too many teams, the All Blacks included, than can operate with forwards going backwards. The trick is to get the forwards playing how they did in Brisbane and for much of the game in Durban. If they do we will be saying (insert the name of any back here) played a lot better.

There's not a nation in the top half dozen ranked teams whose forwards efforts fluctuate as much as the Wallabies do against all teams - and this has been the case for about 8 years - so it's not a matter of not giving credit to Ireland.

 

[Richo]

Sorry, Slim, but this is when what Barnes brings and McCabe doesn't makes a difference. We lacked tactical kicking and did not build field position. Barnes would not have won us that game, but he would have helped put us in better field position more consistently and that is at least part of building pressure. In the wet it's also hard to throw long balls, which makes putting it through the hands more important. McCabe and Fingers simply are not good at doing this -- in form or not.

 

[Braveheart81]

I agree completely LG however I feel the current structure of our backline falls apart completely if our forwards aren't on top.

I'd like to see Barnes there who tends to make more intelligent decisions to boot the ball downfield into touch and start again.

With Cooper and Beale we have too much of a tendency to try and score from our own 22 when things aren't going well. Barnes should add some composure.

 

[Slim 293]

What good is tactical kicking if the forwards aren't going to put any pressure on them?

 

[antipodean]

Must say I'm slightly bemused about all this talk of who should be in what backline position when the game against Ireland was lost up front...

 

[Slim 293]

Must say I'm slightly bemused about all this talk of who should be in what backline position when the game against Ireland was lost up front...

Indeed.

The only change to the backline would have to be dropping Fainga'a after a couple of ordinary matches, sliding in AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and giving Mitchell his first start and giving him plenty of gametime in case Ioane doesn't return for the quarters.

I don't think there needs to be really any changes up front either with the exception of Moore and Pocock resuming their places, and at the very least bringing Sharpe to the bench.

There's obviously nothing wrong with the personnel as they've beaten better opposition this year. It's just in the execution.

 

[vidiot]

I don't think there needs to be really any changes up front either with the exception of Moore and Pocock resuming their places, and at the very least bringing Sharpe to the bench.

And, of course, attempting to influence what is happening on the park by actually using said reserves before the 75 minute chasing-the-game flurry of desperation.

 

[Slim 293]

And, of course, attempting to influence what is happening on the park by actually using said reserves before the 75 minute chasing-the-game flurry of desperation.

Indeed again.

The bench was not used early enough again on the weekend.

 

[fatprop]

We lost by 9 points while being beaten up front.

If we were going that well up front, we would have won by 40.

 

[jay-c]

while i agree some of the bench options would have made a difference in > palu higgenbothem burgess etc i feel robbie needs to be defended in keeping tpn on the field
as tired as he was against the irish the scrum was in real trouble and taking him off and putting fainga on would have destabilised the scrum enourmously>>> fainga is a far far weaker scrumagging hooker and we would have been blown off the park much more than we were>>

 

[antipodean]

Agreed. Fingers is a fat, frustrated flanker. Not a hooker.

 

[Braveheart81]

And, of course, attempting to influence what is happening on the park by actually using said reserves before the 75 minute chasing-the-game flurry of desperation.

Obviously this is something that many of us have touched on already and not the first time that Deans has done this.

From my perspective, I imagine that it's a case of thinking that at 9-6 down you've still got belief in the players on the field to do the job and then by the time the game has goes another 10 minutes or so, and we're 12-6 or 15-6 down and running out of time and options, it is too little and too late in terms of bringing the reserves on then.

I think it isn't the easiest situation to be in as a coach. I guess you've got to come back to your game plan which should say that Samo can only last 60 minutes and has to be replaced then, regardless of the score. Vickerman needs to be replaced after 50-55 minutes. TPN is just coming back from injury and has to replaced at 65 minutes regardless of your worries about the scrum. etc. etc.

 

[twenty seven]

Chasmac I don't know if you have ever packed in a scrum, or played as a prop, but I must strongly disagree with you on the scrum penalties. If you look closely, several of the penalties awarded against us were in fact the collapsing of the Irish props. As a 'retired' prop who played both sides of the scrum I was constantly bemused, and yes, totally frustrated with most of the calls.

 

[twenty seven]

Just as a thought;
1. Why has Robbie Deans not recognised that one of his areas of concern as a coach is his inability to read when substitutions are required. Should he not, for the better of the team, engage someone in the position to do that job ensuring that we do not have these problems again.
2. Looking at the inside and outside centres of the AB's, English and Irish, are our guys too small. For that matter our whole back line is smaller when comparing tjem to other dominating sides. The Irish backs were just as efficent at the breakdown as their forwards. Fainga'a is a marvelous defender and he did keep O'Driscoll on his toes, however his attack needs lots of work.

 

[twenty seven]

'Precautionary scans have cleared the Reds leader of anything sinister in a major positive for the Wallabies as they look to re-group for Friday night’s clash against the United States in Wellington'

' Centre Anthony Fainga'a will join the group in Wellington later today after staying behind in Auckland on Sunday night because of illness'.Info on the Reds site.



There were 15 men on that team that lost. In all reality, none of them put up their hands, backs as well as forwards. Look at the Irish backs, they were in there and we looked like we were playing fifteen forwards.
Maybe our guys, especially the backs, need to stop tweeting and checking how popular they are and start PLAYING THE BLOODY GAME that they are there to do.

 

[TheSwearingBear]

Both teams have to get there first.

True that.

 

[DPK]

What good is tactical kicking if the forwards aren't going to put any pressure on them?

An opportunity for the forwards to fight their way back into the game in an easier position than I dunno... a midfield crash ball out of reach of the pack?

 

[TheSwearingBear]

If Anthony Fainga'a has any sort of injury, shouldn't someone attempt to convince him to fall on his sword and allow Giteau to get over there quick smart?

Arguably the best #12 in the world is sitting at home watching on TV, much, I'm sure, to the baffled amusement of all the other teams in this tournament.