RWC - Wallabies v Ireland - 17th September 2011

[Braveheart81]

If Anthony Fainga'a has any sort of injury, shouldn't someone attempt to convince him to fall on his sword and allow Giteau to get over there quick smart?

Arguably the best #12 in the world is sitting at home watching on TV, much, I'm sure, to the baffled amusement of all the other teams in this tournament.

I think most of us would argue with that a lot.

 

[PaarlBok]

The under estimate of the NH teams cost you lot. Wales nearly did the same thing to us. If we havent had the likes of Alberts and battleship on the bench we would have choked big time last week. Once we defeat them in the physical match up in the forwards we started to play front foot ball. You lot need a stronger bench and probably a better coach.

 

[mark_s]

I think thats right Paarl. It was the combination of who SA had on the bench plus the coaches willingness to use them that got SA home V wales. We couldn't, partly due to poor coaching (say in the case of higgers and S Fainga'a) and partly because some of the players on the bench were less than 100% fit and the staff probably didn't want to risk them for too long (e.g Mitchel and Palu).

 

[antipodean]

An opportunity for the forwards to fight their way back into the game in an easier position than I dunno... a midfield crash ball out of reach of the pack?

Why can't your scrum half/ first five-eighth do that?

 

[DPK]

Not having a genuine, legitimate answer to your question, I'm going to be honest; they're bloody Queenslanders. It's clear they've switched off after winning the Super 15 because their state duties are their priority.

 

[Braveheart81]

In terms of Cooper, I'd certainly say that his first instinct isn't to play the percentages.

 

[PaarlBok]

Not having a genuine, legitimate answer to your question, I'm going to be honest; they're bloody Queenslanders. It's clear they've switched off after winning the Super 15 because their state duties are their priority.

Player burn out. You lot aint use to a S100 marathon. Thats what happen when you play not stop rugby from February.

 

[Mica]

Sorry, Slim, but this is when what Barnes brings and McCabe doesn't makes a difference. We lacked tactical kicking and did not build field position.

I'd say sorry Richo, but this is what your first five is supposed to do.
Is Nonu there for his tactical kicking? Was it Horan or Lynagh who did the tactical kicking?
To me this is where Cooper needs to realise that tactical kicking is one of the most important jobs of the first five!!

When the conditions are like they were at Eden Park on Saturday night, doing the basics well is paramount, not trying the creative, flashy stuff at all costs.

McCabe might not have the range of skills of some of the other players, but who ever is going to win this tournament is going to need midfield starch and he has this in buckets.
Personally I don't want Australia being all flash and no substance and I think that we have enough creative players if they can also do the basics well.

End Rant

 

[thedubs]

Just throw in something here - Anyone analysed the differences between the the S15 and Heineken Cup?

S15 is stereotyped for having bad defending - I think the main culprit is lack of 'cup' intensity. I only really see it in the much latter stages of the competition or if a team like the Stormers come in. Its completely different to what you'd see in the Heineken cup. You get another chance in the S15, in repetitive games, half of which have poor forwards and even more poorly constructed defence's and breakdowns.

Contrast this to the Heineken Cup - where teams will have to fight for their life in all high intensity games in the group stages, often across different conditions - In Munster you have to have an outstanding forward gameplan and compete at every ruck for your life (Ironically this gameplan beat the wallabies at the weekend, and also let Munster beat Australia in Thomond park last year), and if you switch it over to the South of France you'll be facing full french flair. A team like Leinster have to be toughened up, prepared for almost any game plan, and be able to react on the spot. S. Fitzpatrick pointed this out a few months back after the HC final.

Thats not to take anything away from the S15 which plays rugby that appeals to all viewers - but the HC plays much 'Cup' like rugby. Its often said to be better viewing than the Six Nations by many European fans.

 

[RedsHappy]

I thought it worth posting this snippet from John Eales' rugby column in the SMH today:

For mine there was one moment which was representative of the Wallabies' evening. When Jonathan Sexton's 52nd-minute penalty goal attempt hit the upright, the only reason Ireland didn't score from the rebound was that Brian O'Driscoll was too diligent and had followed through too far. In contrast, there was hardly an Australian in sight.

In fact, in camera shot, as the ball soared towards the posts, you could have almost thrown a blanket over eight Wallabies around the 22-metre line, while others stood, hands on hips, within their quarter of the field. It was a picture of – I hate to say it – complacency.

 

[Slim 293]

I'd say sorry Richo, but this is what your first five is supposed to do.
Is Nonu there for his tactical kicking? Was it Horan or Lynagh who did the tactical kicking?
To me this is where Cooper needs to realise that tactical kicking is one of the most important jobs of the first five!!

When the conditions are like they were at Eden Park on Saturday night, doing the basics well is paramount, not trying the creative, flashy stuff at all costs.

McCabe might not have the range of skills of some of the other players, but who ever is going to win this tournament is going to need midfield starch and he has this in buckets.
Personally I don't want Australia being all flash and no substance and I think that we have enough creative players if they can also do the basics well.

End Rant

Also, tactical kicking hasn't been an issue for us this year.

Genia and Cooper's general play kicking has generally been pretty good...

McCabe has been succeeding in his role of making metres with the ball and smashing people in defence... his counter rucking has also led to turnovers...

Right now it's at outside centre where we need more of a real attacking threat... AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will do the job for now, and if Horne can get fit he could really fulfill that role...

 

[Sluggy]

Must say I'm slightly bemused about all this talk of who should be in what backline position when the game against Ireland was lost up front...

Yes. We could put Richard Graham and Dingo in the centres without affecting the result if our forwards don't HTFU.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think that our game really falls apart in the wet. Something needs to be done about that. My guess is that having Barnes at 12 would really help that situation.

Barnes is also a comparable defender to McCabe (less dominant tackles but at least as good completion rate), and a far better attacker.

Would people dislike him less if he could change his sookface to angryface?

 

[Mica]

Also, tactical kicking hasn't been an issue for us this year.

Genia and Cooper's general play kicking has generally been pretty good...

I have no doubt that Cooper can do the role as it needs to be done; and yes we have seen him execute some brilliant tactical kicks this year.

It's just that as a first five he is relatively immature and his decision making needs to improve if he is to be truly world class.

The conditions on Saturday night really needed Cooper plugging the corners inside Ireland's 22 to build pressure and take the pressure off our forwards.
You would have noticed how much better our scrum went inside or near Ireland's 22 and our forwards sure as heck needed all the help they could get to help quell and inspired Irish pack.

All you need to look at to see this is the way that Dan Carter kicks and moves his team around the field. He has the tactical nous of a world class first five.

We just need to somehow figure out how to transplant Stephen Larkham's brain into Quade's head!

 

[Gnostic]

There's not too many teams, the All Blacks included, than can operate with forwards going backwards. The trick is to get the forwards playing how they did in Brisbane and for much of the game in Durban. If they do we will be saying (insert the name of any back here) played a lot better.

There's not a nation in the top half dozen ranked teams whose forwards efforts fluctuate as much as the Wallabies do against all teams - and this has been the case for about 8 years - so it's not a matter of not giving credit to Ireland.

This is the very factor, along with predictable play caused by rigid game plans and the pressing need to find a true successor to Larkham (as even then most learned rugby pundits knew Giteau wasn't a 10's shoe lace) that Deans was hired for. Why are we beset by I would say worse problems now? The Wallabies under Jones and Connolly failed regularly but not with the spectacular highs and lows of Deans. Its speak volumes when we have these wild swings, not in form but basic application. IMO part is down to basic mental preparation of the side and their adaptability to meet changing situations, but a greater part is the side has no solid underlying structure to their game that they can fall back to when things start to go a bit pear shaped. They run out with no real game plan playing reactively to their opposition to take their chances when presented. If the opposition don't give them the chances ala Samoa, Scotland, England x 2, ABs (Wellington) and now Ireland by simple accurate forward play they do not have the structures to go out and build their own chances. This is where Deans is a fundamental failure at this level. How is this side better than the 2007 version? Answer - it has some great X factor individuals in it to replace the aging Larkham, Mortlock and over rated Giteau, but nothing has really changed with the pack, even to the point of bringing back Vickerman who was then and remains a penalty liability, and playing a loose running back row and playing suspect props out of position.

 

[Braveheart81]

We just need to somehow figure out how to transplant Stephen Larkham's brain into Quade's head!

Quade Larkenstein would be the greatest 10 ever to play the game.

 

[Mica]

I think that our game really falls apart in the wet. Something needs to be done about that. My guess is that having Barnes at 12 would really help that situation.

Barnes is also a comparable defender to McCabe (less dominant tackles but at least as good completion rate), and a far better attacker.

Would people dislike him less if he could change his sookface to angryface?

I like Barnes, but it is apples and oranges with McCabe.

McCabe plays the game hard and simple.
Barnes will never run or defend with as much impact, but that is not his game.

It really depends on the balance that the Wallabies want in this position.

Do the want a player who will run straight and hard all day and make offensive tackles and hit rucks hard when needed or;
Do they want a creative attacker, competent defender and tactical kicker in this position.

Don't forget that you currently have Genia, Cooper, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale as your creative players in the halves and backs - do we really need another one?
To me this would almost be too many chefs in the kitchen.

 

[Mica]

As long as we get Larkham's tackling as well. :lmao:

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Don't forget that Barnes isn't exactly a wall flower either. the man can lay a hit and has a great physical element to his game, particularly defensively.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think that balance works in dry conditions when the long cutout pass to bring Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) into the game is a safe option.

In the wet though, I think that gameplan completely falls apart.