Refereeing decisions

[rapt]

In speeding the game up this should be the law imo

 

[Strewthcobber]

I think the issue is the law isn't actually clear - you have to know about a 2014 clarification.

Why that isn't actually in the lawbook is another one of rugby's mysteries.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I understand that Wilson. I'm talking about what I'd prefer.

 

[LeCheese]

If the law is revised to ball out when the ball is touched, there's a reasonable chance it'll increase the number of knock-ons, as it would rush the action of the 9 (and those picking up the ball from a ruck who may have less safe hands). Endeavouring to make the game quicker by knocking off a second or two at some rucks could ultimately lead to more stoppages and scrums...

From a defender's and referee's point of view, I'd also argue it's far less clear when a ball is touched as opposed to picked up, which could muddy the waters a fair bit.

 

[rapt]

Thats fair, i just have a gripe with players holding a hand on it at the ruck, it’s clearly available to play so you should be playing it, that or in those instances there should be “x” time to play it or ref calls balls out

 

[LeCheese]

I just see it as such a low % improvement to game speed (if at all, as above) that I’d much rather a player set and ready themselves for the next play - whether it be a pass, box kick, or pick and go - and reduce the risk of error.

I do agree there should be more consistent timing and application of referees calling use it though

 

[Brumby Runner]

OK, too much downside to ball out when touched, but I still believe there is too much latitude given to halfbacks who often grasp and hold the ball with both hands when otherwise it is clear of the back of the ruck but it still isn't play on for the defence (Tate's effort highlighted above is an example). For clarity, Lonergan placed one hand on the ball which was clear of the ruck and the other on the backside of the last player in the ruck on Friday and it was held to be still in the ruck. There is no fair competition for the ball the way it is being adjudicated right now.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's interesting that people are talking about what the halfback is doing. I posted the photo expecting debate as to whether the ball is actually out of the ruck.

In which case the half can do what he wants

 

[rapt]

I think it got to there as many think with a hand on the ball like that, that the ball should be out.

But yes your one is a 50/50 dependant on whose view as a referee you get, is there any Reds players “contesting” a ruck on their feet cause imo that's another one for me, if everyone has cleared the ruck is there a ruck to be offside etc

 

[liquor box]

I admit to having a poor memory, but I seem to recall quite a few years ago hearing a definition of a ball being out of a ruck was if a bird flying overhead was able to shit on the ball. This can only happen is the ball is past the last player and not covered by a leg.

I particularly hate when a ball is still in the ruck when a 9's hands are touching the ball, are they not playing the ball with their hands in a ruck which is a penalty if a 7 does it.

 

[Dan54]

Well said Conrad!

Conrad Smith calls for 'absolute respect' for referees after 'vile' World Cup abuse

Conrad Smith is demanding zero tolerance towards any abuse of referees as New Zealand returns to the Test arena for the first time since losing the World Cup final.

www.planetrugby.com

 

[John S]

The one thing in that article that just put me off was saying 4 kiwi teams made the Super Rugby semis. I'm pretty sure the Brums are not in NZ. (And this is the wrong thread for that discussion)

But I agree re the ref abuse

 

[stillmissit]

The first area to speed the game up is to stop scrum resets. It is being used by teams to get a better 'hit' or to slow the game and I am sure there are other reasons for this. First reset a warning, second one free kick to the attacking team.

 

[John S]

But what if it's the attacking team that caused the reset?

 

[LeCheese]

If your concern is one team trying to take advantage of the rules at scrum time, I'm not sure this is the solution.

Scrums are a tricky one to crack given their nature. I think the variations trialled in Super made a big difference.

 

[Tomthumb]

Ref involvement in scrums is what has ruined them. Giving them more power would be asinine

 

[Strewthcobber]

Scrums have been far better over the last couple of years. Refs should be credited with speeding that whole area of the game up.

I realise I will probably have to disagree with myself in a couple of weeks time after NH ref's interpretations and NH teams visit us here

 

[Strewthcobber]

What really ruined them is someboby actually counted how many life-changing injuries were happening in the scrum and the sport realised they were not safe without being heavily supervised by the referee

 

[Braveheart81]

Players have got bigger and stronger and subsequently scrums have also got much more powerful. They also pack far lower now.

Despite that, as Strewthcobber said, they have also got a lot safer.

 

[LeCheese]

Yep, it really is chalk and cheese. A scrum from 1991 Bledisloe attached for ease of reference.