JRugby2
Chris McKivat (8)
tell us you know nothing about scrums without telling us...Ref involvement in scrums is what has ruined them. Giving them more power would be asinine
tell us you know nothing about scrums without telling us...Ref involvement in scrums is what has ruined them. Giving them more power would be asinine
I would put my knowledge on scrums up against yours any daytell us you know nothing about scrums without telling us...
Ok champ well so far you think the best way forward is having 900kg packs going at it in a free-for-all so you're off to great start.I would put my knowledge on scrums up against yours any day
No, but refs slowing his calls down directly leads to more collapses, as expecting 900kgs packs to hold in an unnatural position for numerous seconds is stupid. On top of that refs guessing on every penalty as they don't even know what they are looking atOk champ well so far you think the best way forward is having 900kg packs going at it in a free-for-all so you're off to great start.
Calls generally go as fast as players showing stability - so this is a player issue, not the the referee.No, but refs slowing his calls down directly leads to more collapses, as expecting 900kgs packs to hold in an unnatural position for numerous seconds is stupid.
This is a wild assumption (and ironic considering it itself is a guess)On top of that refs guessing on every penalty as they don't even know what they are looking at
You assume here that the referee is penalising a player for "intentionally" hinging and that the referee is penalising them for not only collapsing a scrum but their intent to do so. Are you saying that front rowers can't accidently collapse? What if a prop doesn't have the strength to hold their side up under pressure, or has gone too low to begin with? You're also making a wild claim here that the majority of times when a scrum collapses its the LHP that is penalised over the THP - other than it being what you reckon do you have anything to support this?The "hinging" call is the most obvious example. There is no logic nor benefit behind a loosehead bending down like that, and yet time and time again they are penalized, as opposed to the tight head that actually collapsed it
The benefit to intentional hinging is collapsing the opposing scrum, either drawing a penalty or painting a picture for the refereeThe "hinging" call is the most obvious example. There is no logic nor benefit behind a loosehead bending down like that, and yet time and time again they are penalized, as opposed to the tight head that actually collapsed it
This is the problem. People don't get more stable the longer they remain in an off balance position. Again, showing the fact you've never been in a scrumCalls generally go as fast as players showing stability - so this is a player issue, not the the referee.
Not an assumption at all. I watch the scrum, and refs constantly penalize the wrong team. The fact you think I'm guessing again shows a lack of understandingThis is a wild assumption (and ironic considering it itself is a guess)
I'm not assuming annoying. Please, I'm happy to tell you the techniques around the loose and tight head positions, but you seem to be so confident in something you obviously know so little aboutYou assume here that the referee is penalising a player for "intentionally" hinging and that the referee is penalising them for not only collapsing a scrum but their intent to do so. Are you saying that front rowers can't accidently collapse? What if a prop doesn't have the strength to hold their side up under pressure, or has gone too low to begin with? You're also making a wild claim here that the majority of times when a scrum collapses its the LHP that is penalised over the THP - other than it being what you reckon do you have anything to support this?
The irony...This is the problem. People don't get more stable the longer they remain in an off balance position. Again, showing the fact you've never been in a scrum
Not an assumption at all. I watch the scrum, and refs constantly penalize the wrong team. The fact you think I'm guessing again shows a lack of understanding
I'm not assuming annoying. Please, I'm happy to tell you the techniques around the loose and tight head positions, but you seem to be so confident in something you obviously know so little about
The funniest part of this is if a Loose head ever did try and collapse a scrum if would look nothing like it currently does. He's under the tight head's chest, so if he did try and pull it down, how does the tight head end of completely flat on his stomach with no loose head under him?The benefit to intentional hinging is collapsing the opposing scrum, either drawing a penalty or painting a picture for the referee
yeah it's weird it's almost like they can move?The funniest part of this is if a Loose head ever did try and collapse a scrum if would look nothing like it currently does. He's under the tight head's chest, so if he did try and pull it down, how does the tight head end of completely flat on his stomach with no loose head under him?
The first part of this video gives a good demonstration of itThe funniest part of this is if a Loose head ever did try and collapse a scrum if would look nothing like it currently does. He's under the tight head's chest, so if he did try and pull it down, how does the tight head end of completely flat on his stomach with no loose head under him?
Oh Jeez, seriously?The first part of this video gives a good demonstration of it
The rest is just the result of physics
Two refs a good thing? Depends if you want to see twice as many penalties as you do now, or not?It seems most issues happen on the side that the referee is NOT standing on, could an easy solution be to bring on a touch judge to stand next to the scrum at the time of it being packed?
If there is a run or kick down the touchies side the the video ref can make an assessment.
Because a) it's a demonstration, and b) as mentioned before, there are some potential advantages if you can get away with it.Oh Jeez, seriously?
First of all the loose head is in good position there, so why would he even contemplate collapsing?
As demonstrated in the video, the loosehead angling down will also destabilise the tighthead and bring them down. A bit of slippage and fracturing thereafter and you get the pancaking you were querying before.Second of all, a loose head is under a tight head, therefore his head is lower to start with. His hips with bend more no matter who collapses it, as the tight head can simply just drop his body weight on top of him
This happens already - but they don't come infield as I think you're suggesting.It seems most issues happen on the side that the referee is NOT standing on, could an easy solution be to bring on a touch judge to stand next to the scrum at the time of it being packed?
If there is a run or kick down the touchies side the the video ref can make an assessment.
The problem with that is all it would require is a Tight head release his bind and he wouldn't go down and the Loose head would end up down and looking foolish. A good tight head would have this figured out pretty quickAs demonstrated in the video, the loosehead angling down will also destabilise the tighthead and bring them down. A bit of slippage and fracturing thereafter and you get the pancaking you were querying before.
Anyway, it's a very fluid dark art and a bit of a guessing game for referees as we know. There'll never be certainty in decision making at scrum time.
It is and at the same time it isn't. It's not true to say that referees don't ever guess, but to say they are always guessing is also not true.Because a) it's a demonstration, and b) as mentioned before, there are some potential advantages if you can get away with it.
As demonstrated in the video, the loosehead angling down will also destabilise the tighthead and bring them down. A bit of slippage and fracturing thereafter and you get the pancaking you were querying before.
Anyway, it's a very fluid dark art and a bit of a guessing game for referees as we know. There'll never be certainty in decision making at scrum time.
In some respects, yes, but there are more points of contact and bind between the two (and therefore manipulation) than just the tighthead's bind on the loosehead.The problem with that is all it would require is a Tight head release his bind and he wouldn't go down and the Loose head would end up down and looking foolish. A good tight head would have this figured out pretty quick