Reds vs Waratahs, 2011R10

[TOCC]

^^ well yes that's the point, the Reds have had there fair share of injuries so far this season as well, not so much to key players but in the wider squad they have.

I hope we dont see NSW fans try and use there injury toll as a excuse for losing games, they still have more Wallabies in there team the most of the other provinces regardless of injury toll or not... im sure the NSW A side could have turned in a better performance against the Cheetahs at SFS.

 

[DPK]

they still have more Wallabies in there team the most of the other provinces regardless of injury toll or not.

Firstly, that means shit all if they can't get on the park. Secondly, being a capped Wallaby doesn't automatically make you an amazing player, Huia Edmonds is a Wallaby FFS.

 

[TOCC]

Yep, there is a Huia Edmonds in every team, not just NSW....
Even with the injured players ignored, NSW still have more Wallabies then some of the other states..

Just saying

 

[Red Rooster]

Is it me or is Phil Waugh a bit deluded. First he decides which games he will play in. Second is he such a good player that with and injured arm and now leg he is still better than the next guy in the Tahs squad? Third there is no guy being developed to replace him (Beau is a case in point) so everytime he does not play the Tahs suffer from not having a quality specialist on the field - this reinforces the image that Waugh is important. Fourth when he does not play he still travels with the team thereby not allowing any leadership development of any of the other players and then he sits on the sideline as if he is the coach. Fifth i was told the other day that he runs the trainig sessions so maybe he is the coach and therfore obviously the selector which explains all of the above - my tip is that when he moves on the tahs will get a new lease of life

 

[Ash]

The thing that has always irked me the most with Waugh is the lack of respect he shows to opposition teams in interviews. Waugh has given some corker interviews about the Reds in the last year, mostly writing them off as a poor side who are playing above their potential. Before the start of this season he gave another one where he considered the Reds to be bottom placed side. Opposition captains just don't do that publicly anymore.

 

[Groucho]

I hope we dont see NSW fans try and use there injury toll as a excuse for losing games

1996 Reds 15–13
1997 Reds 26-16
1998 Draw 17–17
1999 Reds 30-13
2000 Reds 31–16
2001 Reds 25-20
2002 Reds 31–24
2003 Reds 35-23
2004 Reds 23–7
2005 Waratahs 27–8
2006 Waratahs 16-12
2007 Waratahs 26–13
2008 Waratahs 18–11
2009 Waratahs 15–11
2010 Waratahs 30-28
2011 Waratahs 30-6

 

[Viking]

@Red Rooster. I have to agree. Phil Waugh is over-rated as a player and would not be valuable in any other Aus Super team apart from the Tahs.

 

[TOCC]

^^^ Cheetahs @ SFS....enough said

but for the sanctity of this thread and to avoid a recurrence of the 'festival of hate', lets try to keep things sensible...

 

[RedsHappy]

1996 Reds 15–13
1997 Reds 26-16
1998 Draw 17–17
1999 Reds 30-13
2000 Reds 31–16
2001 Reds 25-20
2002 Reds 31–24
2003 Reds 35-23
2004 Reds 23–7
2005 Waratahs 27–8
2006 Waratahs 16-12
2007 Waratahs 26–13
2008 Waratahs 18–11
2009 Waratahs 15–11
2010 Waratahs 30-28
2011 Waratahs 30-6

Essentially, amongst other factors no doubt, isn't the biggest truth here that the Reds have, for 7 years, not been able to master the Tahs' forwards, period. And for a long time in this stretch, the Reds' forwards mastered not very much over any team, in any event.

On April 23 we'll know if this compelling trend can be broken.

 

[jay-c]

does anyone know he official reason beau robinson was not wanted at the tahs?
i felt that in his last season he was improving his play to the point he was demanding more and more game time off phil waugh from the bench>
i think phil waugh as a breakaway is behind- pocock, hodgeson, robinson, brown in the pecking order for wallaby 7 -everyone raves about his leadship, but he doesnt do enough as a breakaway for me, not enough pilfers, too small to be a ball runner. the fact he throws himself around alot doesnt impress me

 

[waratahjesus]

beau robinson was not wanted by the tahs for more than his ability. i will leave it at that but there was much more at play than he is better than him so we dont need him.

Wuagh is the club captain, of course he travels with the team, he is also a vastly experienced brilliant player, yes he is getting on and he may not be as good as he once was but he is still of value.

as far as being behind people, thats fine, but to the tahs squad which is playing he is the best player by a mile. im sure the four or five you listed above him would be of great value in the game they arnt playing in.

 

[Hawko]

Luck or a good conditioning program with a smart rotational policy...
How many of those rotations have been made due to niggling injuries?
Reds haven't been without injury, Horwill, Hynes, Tapuai, Shatz, Toua, Wallace-Harrison, Lucas, Slipper, Davies, Humpries and Samo are all players who haven't been considered for selection due to injury at some point this season.

And most of those you've listed missed one week.

Every team has its horror run of injuries. Last year the Reds lost traction and didn't make the semi's because half their first choice team was crocked for the last three weeks (I assume you would prefer this explanation to the alternative). This year the Tahs have been hit early. I'm just hoping that our bad run is early this year and that we will work everyone back in by round 14 so we can push on. But the Tahs this week are seriously under-strength. Waugh and TPN are clearly playing injured, Palu has a dubious hammy, Barnes and Horne are missing from our run-on team. Our back-up hooker and winger are also out. From your first choice team you are down a THP and a winger. I would cheerfully give up Kepu and Turner if I could have Waugh, TPN, Palu, Barnes and Horne fully fit.

Even super-Mac had a horror run one year with the Tahs and we came almost last. You have to be realistic; despite your players and coach, luck plays a big part in a good Super campaign.

This week we will be seriously understrength. We can still win but I know we are not favourites and realistically I expect a close loss. But I hope for better.

 

[jay-c]

the warratahs are gunna do everything in power to slow this game down and make it boring as hell
i hope for the good of rugby the reds control the game

 

[Lee Grant]

I'm wondering what Tahs team will show up. Will it be the Tahs who dominated the Reds in R2 or the pussy cats who played the Blues last week and looked liked they lacked energy and interest? Once I saw Fat Cat dominate a tackle and it cried out for a couple of team mates to get involved and consummate the action in a counter ruck - or at least take up space with their bodies so the Blues couldn't use it - but they lined up and watched. The Blues guys were hurling their bodies into these situations and the Tahs guys let them.


The backs were not a lot better even when their ball was reasonable. Believe it or not but KB (Kurtley Beale) was a top passer of the ball at school, both ways and long, but he seems to have lost it. He wasn't the only one; nor was it the only fault: sometimes backs were running side by side so the receiver couldn't get it on the burst else it would have been a forward pass. I just shook my head.


By contrast the Reds backs were extraordinarily good a lot of the time. It was a bit like watching the Randwick team in the late 70s after the Ella brothers arrived.


Randwick have always been able to track their back play heritage to stalwarts like Wally Meagher a long time coach and Cyril Towers a club guru, and both members of the famous Tahs 1927/28 team. Some old timers reckons that it goes back to their mentor Ash Hennessy who coached and taught them at Waverly Christian Brothers, and also coached at Kings and Riverview.


Hennessy's mantra was no kicking of the ball. If you passed the pill often enough whilst running forward and supports ran straight at gaps you would eventually make breaks and score tries.


But I digress. With the arrival of Ellas Randwick got the tools they needed to play that rugby at the optimum level.


I'm not saying that old Randwick THP McKenzie is passing on the Towers/Meagher Randwick baton to the Reds as he was hardly one of the "galloping" Greens but geez, I could see some similarities with the old 'Wicks. For example: well executed loop passing has virtually disappeared from pro rugby but we saw a lot of that against the Bulls.


Last year I said that enjoyed watching the Reds playing more than my own team, the Tahs, and nothing much has changed this year. I can't wish them success in the game, obviously, but I want to see more of the Reds' rugby I saw last week.


Who knows: maybe the Tahs will play a bit of Reds' rugby too.

 

[Red Rooster]

By contrast the Reds backs were extraordinarily good a lot of the time. It was a bit like watching the Randwick team in the late 70s after the Ella brothers arrived.
Randwick have always been able to track their back play heritage to stalwarts like Wally Meagher a long time coach and Cyril Towers a club guru, and both members of the famous Tahs 1927/28 team. Some old timers reckons that it goes back to their mentor Ash Hennessy who coached and taught them at Waverly Christian Brothers, and also coached at Kings and Riverview.
Hennessy's mantra was no kicking of the ball. If you passed the pill often enough whilst running forward and supports ran straight at gaps you would eventually make breaks and score tries.
But I digress. With the arrival of Ellas Randwick got the tools they needed to play that rugby at the optimum level.
I'm not saying that old Randwick THP McKenzie is passing on the Towers/Meagher Randwick baton to the Reds as he was hardly one of the "galloping" Greens but geez, I could see some similarities with the old 'Wicks. For example: well executed loop passing has virtually disappeared from pro rugby but we saw a lot of that against the Bulls.
Last year I said that enjoyed watching the Reds playing more than my own team, the Tahs, and nothing much has changed this year. I can't wish them success in the game, obviously, but I want to see more of the Reds' rugby I saw last week.

Who knows: maybe the Tahs will play a bit of Reds' rugby too.

Apart from McKenzie it is worth noting that the Reds Attack Coach is Jim McKay, a former Randiwck winger in the late 1980,s - might explain your thinking

 

[Lee Grant]

Good point and he would have got it from the coach at the time, Alan Gaffney.

 

[RugbyReg]

if I'm not mistaken Bob Dwyer wrote a blog piece for our site suggesting that McKay saw Bob as a bit of a mentor as well.

 

[TOCC]

And most of those you've listed missed one week.

Every team has its horror run of injuries. Last year the Reds lost traction and didn't make the semi's because half their first choice team was crocked for the last three weeks (I assume you would prefer this explanation to the alternative). This year the Tahs have been hit early. I'm just hoping that our bad run is early this year and that we will work everyone back in by round 14 so we can push on. But the Tahs this week are seriously under-strength. Waugh and TPN are clearly playing injured, Palu has a dubious hammy, Barnes and Horne are missing from our run-on team. Our back-up hooker and winger are also out. From your first choice team you are down a THP and a winger. I would cheerfully give up Kepu and Turner if I could have Waugh, TPN, Palu, Barnes and Horne fully fit.

Even super-Mac had a horror run one year with the Tahs and we came almost last. You have to be realistic; despite your players and coach, luck plays a big part in a good Super campaign.

This week we will be seriously understrength. We can still win but I know we are not favourites and realistically I expect a close loss. But I hope for better.

If Hickey is starting players who are "clearly injured", then his a fucken twat... Plain and simple
You complain about your injury toll, lucky your not a force supporter then, you would probably kill yourself.

 

[allitsab]

Just on the injured players, surely this year Link's solid use of the interchange bench lessens the blow on the Reds when they do have an injury. Each of the guys on the bench have been getting 20-30 minutes of game time, rather than the 3-5 they seem to get for the other franchises - which builds a stronger squad and of course lessens the negative impact of an injury.

Of course, you can't really replace the pace of Davies or the mobility of Slip, but playing the bench the way it has been means the team doesn't lose anything in terms of combinations and the like. With Harris playing so well, even QC (Quade Cooper) getting hurt mightn't be that much of an issue (unless it's for the crusaders or blues games, of course).

Anyhow, 12 hours till I get on the plane for this one and I can't wait. Go the Reds!

 

[Lee Grant]

if I'm not mistaken Bob Dwyer wrote a blog piece for our site suggesting that McKay saw Bob as a bit of a mentor as well.

Yeah, apart from the mentoring Jim would have known Bob's open rugby views although Gaffney was probably the coach for most of Jim's playing days in the Randwick Ones. Towers was Dwyer's mentor and Towers and Meagher were the originators of the Randwick way. Dwyer would probably have passed stuff onto Gaffney and meantime a smallish Randwick hooker, Eddie Jones, would have had his antenna up.

That is simplistic though: running rugby has been entrenched in the club for over 80 years.