Reds V Hurricanes, Round 12, 14 May 2016
- Thread starter Scrubber2050
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Ignoto
Peter Sullivan (51)
I wouldn't quite lump Jake with that group. The names you listed all showed some kind of interesting spark that needed work. Cooper had his passing, footwork and organisational skills, To'omua and Foley were rusty around the edges but showed they had their heads switched on tactically and were aware of what was going on.
Jake to me just hasn't really shown any type of 'spark'. He doesn't have an excellent pass, kick or any outstanding tackling or steps to his arsenal, which is fine, but you need to make up for those lack of features in your rugby smarts. I can't see Jake commanding the backs to be doing anything at all different to keep the opposition guessing at what they'll do. We just see one off passes which are so telegraphed that the receiver gets smashed.
We saw a great backline move which involved a double wrap and that caused havoc on the Hurricane's defence, however the Reds didn't execute it properly and ran out of space. Where the hell has that ingenuity been all season? Quade for all of his lacking in defence could find and create holes which is what we need in our 10, just to be giving some kind of direction to the guys outside him!
Dismal Pillock
Michael Lynagh (62)
Waterboyrugby
Herbert Moran (7)
Yes, because the CIHC's CVs are stacked with Super Rugby coaching experience, with proven records of success in Super Rugby...wait, what?
In actual fact all the keyboard warriors had the same level of Super Rugby coaching exp. before the season!! And halfway through, there still even in terms of success!
Super Rugby is a different game to the NH crap that MOC couldn't even get right.. and NS is proven at NRC which means he doesnt have to play NZ/SA sides. Selections of players with skillsets like JM will never be successful in Super Rugby. Period.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
That's alright Reg, a number of us tried to tell you what the outcome of coach Graham was going to be with some specifics and you didn't like it. I'll trust to my (and a few Reds nuts) assessments.
That's a wonderful way to counter an argument - just bringing up something totally irrelevant. And you're trying to get kudos for being the one who suggested Graham couldn't coach? I look forward to your opinions on whether you think David Pocock is effective at the breakdown.
Can you just confirm though - You don't believe Hendrick Tui has been an effective ball runner this season?
Sword of Justice
Nev Cottrell (35)
Tui would have to be our best player right now imo
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Read what I posted first Reg before you go off your tits. I said the backrow of Tui and Browning lacks balance and is not effective, that includes attack and defence. You can cherry pick if you like but that is the kernel of what I posted.
My irrelevance is because you didn't discuss or post anything either just attacked the veracity and the opinion, as I said that's fine, and no I don't claim any kudos for anything, just pointing reminding you that for a long time you derided those of us who stated what has become obvious now.
To take another subject at the Reds as an example you consistently attack McIntyre for the lack of Reds penetration and structure in attack, and yes there are some skill deficiencies in his game, but that is a bit like being critical of Kyle Godwin in the same manner even though he has never been given a platform to display the skills he has.
So my point is - the backrow combination of Tui and Browning isn't working. I said it was abit like the Palu, Mumm combination at the Tahs, but perhaps a better comparision would have been the Force pair of Brown and McCalman from a few years ago. Very dynamic, fast and totally ineffective most of the time.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Sword of Justice
Nev Cottrell (35)
He may have had a quieter game than usual against the canes who were flirting with the gain line and rushing our defence all night but Tui is the only player who consistently beats the tackler. Maybe Gill gains some as well but Tui is our only forward who eats metres for almost every meal.
Sword of Justice
Nev Cottrell (35)
Our backrow is not the issue at all. We lost in every regard this weekend except at the breakdown.
I would say our general forward play has improved massively over the course of the season. One more forward who injects some impact is problem solved imo.
Our backs on the other hand...
I would say our general forward play has improved massively over the course of the season. One more forward who injects some impact is problem solved imo.
Our backs on the other hand...
fo!!ower
Chris McKivat (8)
I'm not sure of you realise how arrogant your comments come across but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't intend this to be the case. Look, we're both Reds fans who just want the best for our favourite team, so passionate comments are to be expected, I just think we all need to temper such remarks with a little bit of consideration for the wider situation.
MOC and NS both have far more at stake in selecting the team each week than any of us ever will; their coaching careers are on the line and yet they continue to select McIntyre week in, week out. Do you think they would do this without considering any of the alternatives??
I'm not saying that McIntyre is going to be the next Foley or Carter, I'm just saying that the CIHC's obviously see something in him worth persisting with.
This is what you said:
which remains, to me at least, a shocking statement considering how much yardage Tui has got for the Reds this season through the middle of the ruck. Even Browning has stood up there.
Do you have an alternative back row option?
Intruder
Dave Cowper (27)
But Matt O'Connor took Leinster to the European gong winning it with O'Driscoll and co didn't he?
The problem is the cattle of players we have signed for those who have left (all due to previous problems) are not good enough YET at this level. Our backline is just not up to standard atm
Waterboyrugby
Herbert Moran (7)
Yes in the first season with the squad he inherited from the previous regime. Within 2 seasons they were also-rans and MOC was sacked. The attack fell apart and the PPG declined over that period. The fans and media weren't happy with the playing style that had regressed to which MOC is quoted as saying something along the lines of 'we dont play pretty boy rugby anymore' in a presser.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Reds srum was awesome. Slipper and Holmes continue to be the spearhead of something special and so under-rated. Unfortunately the backs just cannot capitalise on that.
CFS scored a great try BUT he is just lazy. He seems (in one frame) to be carrying some extra around the guts) Magnay had a good moment or 2.
Still the backs are poor. People say Jake is improving... Jeez it doesn't seem that way to me and after about 11 starts is still a long way from being adequate in that spot.
Browning, to me, is a player in the Shatz mould but just not quite as good. Tui is gaining metres nearly every time.
MOC, by any reasonable;standard, has made no difference at all. Kerevi was his shining light and with him out the backline wallows.
I just hope the NEW Head Coach is on the way because I feel that neither of the current guys have the right stuff to improve the team to an acceptable standard.
CFS scored a great try BUT he is just lazy. He seems (in one frame) to be carrying some extra around the guts) Magnay had a good moment or 2.
Still the backs are poor. People say Jake is improving... Jeez it doesn't seem that way to me and after about 11 starts is still a long way from being adequate in that spot.
Browning, to me, is a player in the Shatz mould but just not quite as good. Tui is gaining metres nearly every time.
MOC, by any reasonable;standard, has made no difference at all. Kerevi was his shining light and with him out the backline wallows.
I just hope the NEW Head Coach is on the way because I feel that neither of the current guys have the right stuff to improve the team to an acceptable standard.
ForceFan
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Who did most of the ruck work for the Reds in this match?
Ruck involvements over time
Highest contributions by Backs:
A Fainga'a - 18 Total (15 Attack/3 Defence); Magnay - 17T (15A/2D)
Remember:
1. Early means 1st or 2nd of player’s team AFTER the ball carrier has been tackled and brought to ground.
2. Impact means active engagement: strong physical contact, changed shape of ruck, clean-out, protecting ball etc. (more than hand on someone’s bum or arriving after the hard work has been done). Yes it’s subjective - but as I collect all data at least it’s consistent.
3. Impact DOES NOT equate to Effectiveness. I’ve concluded that coming up with an effectiveness measure is just too hard in the time that I have available – but open to suggestions.
And for the other Australian teams?
Impressive lift for the start of the 2nd half by the Rebels, Reds and Waratahs.
As usual Back Rowers (9) make up more than half of this list but some strong contributions from Front Rowers (5) and the normal Locks (2).
Only 8 of these players were in the 2015 RWC squad.
Ruck involvements over time
Highest contributions by Backs:
A Fainga'a - 18 Total (15 Attack/3 Defence); Magnay - 17T (15A/2D)
Remember:
1. Early means 1st or 2nd of player’s team AFTER the ball carrier has been tackled and brought to ground.
2. Impact means active engagement: strong physical contact, changed shape of ruck, clean-out, protecting ball etc. (more than hand on someone’s bum or arriving after the hard work has been done). Yes it’s subjective - but as I collect all data at least it’s consistent.
3. Impact DOES NOT equate to Effectiveness. I’ve concluded that coming up with an effectiveness measure is just too hard in the time that I have available – but open to suggestions.
And for the other Australian teams?
Impressive lift for the start of the 2nd half by the Rebels, Reds and Waratahs.
As usual Back Rowers (9) make up more than half of this list but some strong contributions from Front Rowers (5) and the normal Locks (2).
Only 8 of these players were in the 2015 RWC squad.
Sword of Justice
Nev Cottrell (35)
^ would have thought Ready had more involvements than that. I guess the ones he did have were just extremely effective.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Ready is playing very well. Stepped up to this level quite comfortably (as opposed to McIntyre)
To me, ATM, Moore is not playing to his past levels (dunno if age is becoming a factor now), but TPN, Chibba and even Ready are probably playing better.
To me, ATM, Moore is not playing to his past levels (dunno if age is becoming a factor now), but TPN, Chibba and even Ready are probably playing better.
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