Reds 2018

[tragic]

But I think Lucas and Lance (and possibly Stewart ) are all an upgrade on the 2017 version of Cooper. Cooper hasn't done a job at 10 since he went to France, we aren't talking about the same player who won a Super Rugby title

Still don’t buy it.
Especially with hunt out as well.
If that’s the case his experience still has value in the squad when you’re paying his salary anyway.
Unless you feel he would be too divisive on the bench.
Or unless there’s more.

 

[fatprop]

Still don’t buy it.
Especially with hunt out as well.
If that’s the case his experience still has value in the squad when you’re paying his salary anyway.
Unless you feel he would be too divisive on the bench.
Or unless there’s more.

there has been comment earlier in the thread that he doesn't take direction well

 

[RugbyReg]

But I think Lucas and Lance (and possibly Stewart ) are all an upgrade on the 2017 version of Cooper. Cooper hasn't done a job at 10 since he went to France, we aren't talking about the same player who won a Super Rugby title

That’s a really big call. I’m a huge fan of Stewart’s potential and have been a long supporter of Lance but I don’t think I agree with that.

Even if I was to take into consideration Cooper’s inconsistent form and defensive frailties, I reckon Cooper and Lance are almost on par, Stewart a next level down as much because of a lack of experience (of actual top level footy. I don’t know if he’s even player premier grade rugby).

Lucas would be well below them.

I think it’s more a statement thing from the coach. It’s him asserting his dominance on the squad. A new Alpha asserting himself on the other, established, alpha.

I get it. Not necessarily saying it’s a bad thing but, as I said way back when this all happened, it’s a sign of a rookie coach not being confident in his own abilities to coach a highly skilful guy with a different mindset to his own. He may be able to get away with it this year but part of his development as a coach will be learning how to deal / relate to different types of people.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Higgers confirmed as captain for 2018


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As a non-Reds fan, this is good to see. Higgers has always been a favourite since he was one of the standouts in the ill fated ARC, along with Ben Lucas, Ben Alexander and Christian Lealiifano. He was in excellent form last year, and has good experience as captain at the Rebels. The up-and-comers can have his spot when they demonstrate they are consistently superior. Pity the same thinking didn't apply at Wallaby level in respect of both Higgers and Scott Fardy last year.

 

[Sully]

We all know Higgers had to go with Hooper in the team.

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[Beer Baron]

That’s a really big call. I’m a huge fan of Stewart’s potential and have been a long supporter of Lance but I don’t think I agree with that.

Even if I was to take into consideration Cooper’s inconsistent form and defensive frailties, I reckon Cooper and Lance are almost on par, Stewart a next level down as much because of a lack of experience (of actual top level footy. I don’t know if he’s even player premier grade rugby).

Lucas would be well below them.

I think it’s more a statement thing from the coach. It’s him asserting his dominance on the squad. A new Alpha asserting himself on the other, established, alpha.

I get it. Not necessarily saying it’s a bad thing but, as I said way back when this all happened, it’s a sign of a rookie coach not being confident in his own abilities to coach a highly skilful guy with a different mindset to his own. He may be able to get away with it this year but part of his development as a coach will be learning how to deal / relate to different types of people.

Reg can't it be that BT just prefers consistency over hot and cold. If you have a v. young backline you can't have a 10 whose plan b is a Crossfield kick. You also need a strong defender as the (likely) 13 is a bit suspect.

I think the decision would have been made regardless of personalities/egos etc.

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[Rebels3]

But I think Lucas and Lance (and possibly Stewart ) are all an upgrade on the 2017 version of Cooper. Cooper hasn't done a job at 10 since he went to France, we aren't talking about the same player who won a Super Rugby title

Lance is solid, nothing more nothing less.
Lucas you'd find is a solid squad player but an improvement on Cooper, you must be having a laugh.
Stewart.... i hope the kid does well but personally i don't think his finished article will be up to Coopers level. I hope i am incorrect on this assumption tho.
Cooper seems to have taken a lot of heat for the Reds performances last season, but the fact is he was hardly the reason they sucked. Sure he didn't play the greatest but he wasn't shocking either, injuries and a lack of grunt and go forward in the pack were surely more of an issue.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Lance is solid, nothing more nothing less. Lucas you'd find is a solid squad player but an improvement on Cooper, you must be having a laugh. Stewart.. i hope the kid does well but personally i don't think his finished article will be up to Coopers level. I hope i am incorrect on this assumption tho. Cooper seems to have taken a lot of heat for the Reds performances last season, but the fact is he was hardly the reason they sucked. Sure he didn't play the greatest but he wasn't shocking either, injuries and a lack of grunt and go forward in the pack were surely more of an issue.

Okay. I can almost see how you get there with Lance being about on par with Cooper, he's not but I can see the logic if we assume your team is built exactly to not take advantage of Quade and entirely built around Lance.

But Lucas hasn't even been starting in France or Japan in the last two years, his last professional start was three years ago. There is no way Lucas can even come close to being a Super Rugby starter, the fact that he can cover so many positions is the only thing that gets him on the bench IMO and even then I could see us going with Sorovi or McDermott.

With respect to Stewart, the kid is good, really good he has so much composure for a 19 year old, he looks like he's got hours with the ball in hand, he's got a really nice running game and a cannon for a boot! At best he's on par with Lance. He's got got no flare with the ball in hand. Something a season under Quade would have probably helped immeasurably.

If nothing else Quade has over 100 Super Rugby caps and 70 Test Caps, he's the Reds All-time leading scorer and has the most points in a single season.You litteraly can't but that sort of experience. I am shocked and suspect there must be something more at play than what we are being told to not at least see him on the bench.

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[Zero_Cool]

We all know Higgers had to go with Hooper in the team.

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Oh it's beyond a joke, sometimes I genuinely wonder what on earth Cheika is thinking. He discards quality players (like Higgers and Cooper) yet starts guys who have no business on a Test Rugby field (Ned and Hodge at 10).

I've never rooted against the Wallabies, but I'm pretty close if it means we can get rid of Cheika.

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[Rebels3]

Okay. I can almost see how you get there with Lance being about on par with Cooper, he's not but I can see the logic if we assume your team is built exactly to not take advantage of Quade and entirely built around Lance.

But Lucas hasn't even been starting in France or Japan in the last two years, his last professional start was three years ago. There is no way Lucas can even come close to being a Super Rugby starter, the fact that he can cover so many positions is the only thing that gets him on the bench IMO and even then I could see us going with Sorovi or McDermott.

With respect to Stewart, the kid is good, really good he has so much composure for a 19 year old, he looks like he's got hours with the ball in hand, he's got a really nice running game and a cannon for a boot! At best he's on par with Lance. He's got got no flare with the ball in hand. Something a season under Quade would have probably helped immeasurably.

If nothing else Quade has over 100 Super Rugby caps and 70 Test Caps, he's the Reds All-time leading scorer and has the most points in a single season.You litteraly can't but that sort of experience. I am shocked and suspect there must be something more at play than what we are being told to not at least see him on the bench.

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Think you meant to paraphase FatProps comments

 

[Zero_Cool]

Think you meant to paraphase FatProps comments

I don't even know anymore I'm still coming to grips with the fact that we are all living in a world where Quade Cooper is being paid $800,000 a year to play Queensland Premier Grade instead of for the Reds.

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[Beer Baron]

I don't even know anymore I'm still coming to grips with the fact that we are all living in a world where Quade Cooper is being paid $800,000 a year to play Queensland Premier Grade instead of for the Reds.

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There will be some quality heckle at the South's games I imagine.

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[Strewthcobber]

Reg can't it be that BT just prefers consistency over hot and cold. If you have a v. young backline you can't have a 10 whose plan b is a Crossfield kick. You also need a strong defender as the (likely) 13 is a bit suspect.

I think the decision would have been made regardless of personalities/egos etc.

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It's just a shame for everyone involved (including us fans) that Thorn doesn't rate himself as a good enough a coach to get what he wants out of a player as good as Cooper could be

 

[Zero_Cool]

Time for some controversy ahead of today's trial game!

I wanted to put out there that Korczyk could get a start. It's not that I think he's one of the best few back rowers we have, but rather I suspect his skill set would be almost ideally suited to the style of game Thorn looks like he'll play. Korczyk is a good defender and he'd play 90 minutes a game if you would let him, he's one of the best defensive lineout operators in Australia and makes sure to hit a ruck.

I suspect the Reds are going to have to build their game around controlling territory, off the back of the kicking game from Stewart and Lance (Stewart can put a team on their 5 meter line from within his own 22, so the actual distance isn't ever going to be an issue). Given this both our attacking and defensive lineout are probably going to be vital to the team. While we'll likely have Rodda & Tui (it's possible that Tui plays 6 and Hockings or Blyth step up to starting lock) in the lineout they won't be enough. Higgers is good but not outstanding and is quite weak on defensive lineouts (he's too slow to get up to reliably disrupt the ball). The other likely back row player has got to be Timu and I really really love this kid, honestly I can't say enough about him! He's brilliant. But probably the only part of his game that actually needs work is his lineout.


PS I also like Wright, and Gunn. I think Wright would be better in the lineout than Gunn but neither are ever going to be Whitelock-esu.

 

[emuarse]

Please don't think I'm saying those guys are anywhere near as good as Higgers (Smith and maybe Timu in time), he is genuinely one of the best players around Super Rugby at the moment. But the question must be what's he worth over a replacement, also considering his age and the likely dropoff with age.

I do really love Higgers, I was gutted and baffled when he wasn't included in the Wallabies Squad for the EOYT, but the reality is Higgers isn't in our long term planning.

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Rugby is not a long term game for players. Use the best you have today, and let the younger pretenders force their way in.

 

[upthereds#!]

Higs to slow to be a defending jumper? That is literally what he was the best at. At the rebels I'm pretty sure he topped the stats for lineout steals as well as all time try scorer for a forwad in Super Rugby.

And what do you mean Gunn and Wright won't be whitelock esque? Since when do you compare the jumping option of an openside flanker against a lineout specialist lock?

And once Rodda comes back from injury, expect Hockings and Blyth to be working towards JWC 2018 whilst Douglas sits on the pine behind rodda and tui.

 

[fatprop]

 

[Braveheart81]

Thorn needs some more media training.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Higs to slow to be a defending jumper? That is literally what he was the best at. At the rebels I'm pretty sure he topped the stats for lineout steals as well as all time try scorer for a forwad in Super Rugby.

And what do you mean Gunn and Wright won't be whitelock esque? Since when do you compare the jumping option of an openside flanker against a lineout specialist lock?

And once Rodda comes back from injury, expect Hockings and Blyth to be working towards JWC 2018 whilst Douglas sits on the pine behind rodda and tui.

Higgers I do agree in the past he was very quick, but last year he didn't look to be as fast as he once was, don't get me wrong he's a nice lineout target but he wasn't the primary disrupter last year that was Korczyk.
Regarding Gunn and Wright, I wasn't saying I expect them to be, but was just saying they aren't likely to be premiere lineout targets any time soon. Wright isn't bad but that isn't his strength, he does other things -- like just go get the ball.
When is Rodda back? My back of the napkin sums when he did the injury was going to have him back 100% this week, but I may have had that wrong or things may have changed. Who do you pick to start instead of Rodda if he's not fit for week 1? I would guess Hockings but only because he's got a little more hype than Blyth but I think you could flip a coin they are both pretty good for 19 year olds.

I would like to see all of the guys who are eligible (and selected) for U20's go. Hockings, Blyth and Hoopert, Scott-Young?, McDermott and Stewart if selected should all be going. I think there is so much experience you can gain from something like that, that just isn't replicated in Super Rugby.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Thorn needs some more media training.

I actually think he was trying to avoid the issue / steer around saying the real reasons. It's clear in every other interview he gives he's pretty good, a little Darren Lockyer, but decent. This one he doesn't know what to say, likely because in all his other interviews he's fairly free to say what he thinks but here he isn't. If that's "I just don't like Quade' or "Quade said fuck you if I'm not starting" I don't know; it could even be something else entirely. I think he's likely avoiding something here.