Rebels 2018

[amirite]

Agree with most of this, interesting today reports now about 4 SA teams inquiring about joining the Anglo Welsh cup. The ball is well and truly in motion and i for one am cheering it on.

The Anglo Welsh Cup is a development competition, where most clubs mix their academy players with a couple of season vets to blood them. It's probably an analog to our 3rd tier competition.

Now, occasionally if a club gets to the later stages they'll decide to go all out and name full strength teams to win some silverware, or if they're having a shitty season in Europe/in their main comp they'll give it a crack, but largely it's development.

SA looking to enter this comp would replacing their commitment to Vodacom Cup and its successor "The Rugby Challenge", more than it would Super Rugby.

Maybe they're planning for a future in Europe, but I think this is a non-event. They had one competition filling this role fail a couple of years ago (Vodacom Cup), and maybe their idea around switching it isn't going so well either (The Rugby Challenge), so they're getting involved in a more proven comp that is less likely to fall apart.

 

[KevinO]

^^^^teams are not going to fund a academy squad to travel to SA for matches.

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[Rebels3]

The Anglo Welsh Cup is a development competition, where most clubs mix their academy players with a couple of season vets to blood them. It's probably an analog to our 3rd tier competition.

Now, occasionally if a club gets to the later stages they'll decide to go all out and name full strength teams to win some silverware, or if they're having a shitty season in Europe/in their main comp they'll give it a crack, but largely it's development.

SA looking to enter this comp would replacing their commitment to Vodacom Cup and its successor "The Rugby Challenge", more than it would Super Rugby.

Maybe they're planning for a future in Europe, but I think this is a non-event. They had one competition filling this role fail a couple of years ago (Vodacom Cup), and maybe their idea around switching it isn't going so well either (The Rugby Challenge), so they're getting involved in a more proven comp that is less likely to fall apart.

Yeh ino what the Anglo Welsh Cup is, to me it's another sign and foot in the door for SA. Despite being treated as Mickey Mouse Competition for the best part, its still SA teams participating in the competition. The writing is on the wall, if you ask me i'd be giving smaller odds that SA isn't part of the Southern Hemisphere club set post 2020 than id be giving they are apart of the Southern Hemisphere set up post 2020.

 

[daz]

My post has significant relevance to your post. It is pointing out what a hypocrite you are and what a delusional argument you Rabble supporters are clinging too.

Mod shmod. Youre not a shark in an ocean, youre a clownfish in a puddle.

Maybe, but I'm still swimming. See ya.

 

[Braveheart81]

How awesome are clownfish. Hundreds of thousands of people go snorkelling and diving on the Great Barrier Reef every year hoping to see one.

 

[GoMelbRebels]

How awesome are clownfish. Hundreds of thousands of people go snorkelling and diving on the Great Barrier Reef every year hoping to see one.

Have you seen the new Pixar movie "Finding Daz"? It's a ripper!

 

[Braveheart81]

Have you seen the new Pixar movie "Finding Daz"? It's a ripper!

He's always in the last spot you look.

 

[daz]

I think we need a reminder that the legal/survival issues facing the Force and the Rebels are two seperate processes, joined only by common ARU incompetence.

The Force have an alliance agreement, and are going into mediation to see if that is legally binding. If it is, they are safe, if it isn't, they are gone. They have a rich dude pledging support.

The Rebels have a licence, privately held by a rich dude pledging support. The ARU can try to buy it, but only if it is put up for sale, which we are told it won't be, if the intent of the buyer is to close down the franchise.

So, to recap, the Rebels are safe if the owner stays true to his word.

The Force are safe if the contract is binding.

Twiggy and his support has zero affect on the Rebels, and Cox's licence has zero affect on the Force. It just depends who has the better legal position.

Ho hum.

 

[FiveStarStu]

I think we need a reminder that the legal/survival issues facing the Force and the Rebels are two seperate processes, joined only by common ARU incompetence.



The Force have an alliance agreement, and are going into mediation to see if that is legally binding. If it is, they are safe, if it isn't, they are gone. They have a rich dude pledging support.



The Rebels have a licence, privately held by a rich dude pledging support. The ARU can try to buy it, but only if it is put up for sale, which we are told it won't be, if the intent of the buyer is to close down the franchise.



So, to recap, the Rebels are safe if the owner stays true to his word.



The Force are safe if the contract is binding.



Twiggy and his support has zero affect on the Rebels, and Cox's licence has zero affect on the Force. It just depends who has the better legal position.



Ho hum.

remember when rugby was fun

 

[GoMelbRebels]

I think we need a reminder that the legal/survival issues facing the Force and the Rebels are two seperate processes, joined only by common ARU incompetence.

The Force have an alliance agreement, and are going into mediation to see if that is legally binding. If it is, they are safe, if it isn't, they are gone. They have a rich dude pledging support.

The Rebels have a licence, privately held by a rich dude pledging support. The ARU can try to buy it, but only if it is put up for sale, which we are told it won't be, if the intent of the buyer is to close down the franchise.

So, to recap, the Rebels are safe if the owner stays true to his word.

The Force are safe if the contract is binding.

Twiggy and his support has zero affect on the Rebels, and Cox's licence has zero affect on the Force. It just depends who has the better legal position.

Ho hum.

That is very well said, Daz. Both clubs have different situations, so it's apples and oranges. You can't compare them.

 

[oztimmay]

I think we need a reminder that the legal/survival issues facing the Force and the Rebels are two seperate processes, joined only by common ARU incompetence.

The Force have an alliance agreement, and are going into mediation to see if that is legally binding. If it is, they are safe, if it isn't, they are gone. They have a rich dude pledging support.

The Rebels have a licence, privately held by a rich dude pledging support. The ARU can try to buy it, but only if it is put up for sale, which we are told it won't be, if the intent of the buyer is to close down the franchise.

So, to recap, the Rebels are safe if the owner stays true to his word.

The Force are safe if the contract is binding.

Twiggy and his support has zero affect on the Rebels, and Cox's licence has zero affect on the Force. It just depends who has the better legal position.

Ho hum.

Sorry to be pedantic, but:

• Western Force are owned by the ARU
• RugtbyWA has an alliance agreement with the ARU. Apparently, and I say that because (like others here) haven't seen the alliance agreement, states the Force will participate in Super Rugby until the end of the current broadcast agreement (finish 2020).
• Mediation is to determine if this clause is enforceable. If so, the Force can stay. If no, bye bye Force.

Is that about right?

 

[BLR]

I think trying to recap 'where we are at' is pointless at this time. I mean, Forrest has said his money is dependent on WA involvement, so even if the legal case works in the ARU's favour, they are potentially risking a game saving windfall cutting the Force.

What has been publicly announced is probably a tip of the iceberg of what is ACTUALLY occuring. So let's just see what happens.

 

[Sauron]

What has been publicly announced is probably a tip of the iceberg of what is ACTUALLY occuring. So let's just see what happens.

If the history of Australian rugby is anything to go by, it's unlikely that there's much else that's been worked out.


Not to mention the fact that Sinderberry said that he hadn't even discussed what Forrest's support will look like- they haven't discussed figures at all (officially, anyway).

 

[Killer]

I think we need a reminder that the legal/survival issues facing the Force and the Rebels are two seperate processes, joined only by common ARU incompetence.

The Force have an alliance agreement, and are going into mediation to see if that is legally binding. If it is, they are safe, if it isn't, they are gone. They have a rich dude pledging support.

The Rebels have a licence, privately held by a rich dude pledging support. The ARU can try to buy it, but only if it is put up for sale, which we are told it won't be, if the intent of the buyer is to close down the franchise.

So, to recap, the Rebels are safe if the owner stays true to his word.

The Force are safe if the contract is binding.

Twiggy and his support has zero affect on the Rebels, and Cox's licence has zero affect on the Force. It just depends who has the better legal position.

Ho hum.

Granted Twiggy cannot do the impossible, but you are very much underestimating his influence in Australia let alone with a broke sporting code Board, if you think this is now only just about a legal issue for The WF.

BTW: ref my last reply to you, do you have any evidence supporting Cox's strong legal claim for damages. I believe this is the crux of your position unless Cox is prepared to carry large annual losses.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Sorry to be pedantic, but:

• Western Force are owned by the ARU
• RugtbyWA has an alliance agreement with the ARU. Apparently, and I say that because (like others here) haven't seen the alliance agreement, states the Force will participate in Super Rugby until the end of the current broadcast agreement (finish 2020).
• Mediation is to determine if this clause is enforceable. If so, the Force can stay. If no, bye bye Force.

Is that about right?

I read somewhere that the ARU will be arguing that the broadcast agreement re-negotiated with 15 teams from 2018 comprises a new deal and hence the agreement is now over, and that's what will be tested

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[GoMelbRebels]

BTW: ref my last reply to you, do you have any evidence supporting Cox's strong legal claim for damages. I believe this is the crux of your position unless Cox is prepared to carry large annual losses.

Do you mean this bit?

"Patently through no fault of our own MRRU has suffered significant damage (financial, reputational, commercial and personal) by the ARU’s handling of this whole process and its unnecessary public statements and actions. Given these actions MRRU has notified the ARU of its intention to seek compensation and at this time has reserved all rights."

 

[Leo86]

I read somewhere that the ARU will be arguing that the broadcast agreement re-negotiated with 15 teams from 2018 comprises a new deal and hence the agreement is now over, and that's what will be tested

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I believe the alliance agreement has a clause wherein both parties must act in the best interest of the other. So negotiating a new agreement that doesnt include the Force will make the alliance agreement null and void and the license will have to be given back to the RugbyWA (and the money paid from the ARU returned, enter 'own the force and Twiggy)

Also if Twiggy does financially support the Force and Vic Gov supports Rebels, then heres a win-win scenario we should all be applauding. the ARU should then have the funds (no court cases) to put into the Grassroots.

The only argument now is depth. i stand by losing a franchise/state will reduce and hurt us long term. All we need is the ARU to take this opportunity and act in the best interest of Australian rugby

 

[Killer]

Do you mean this bit?

"Patently through no fault of our own MRRU has suffered significant damage (financial, reputational, commercial and personal) by the ARU’s handling of this whole process and its unnecessary public statements and actions. Given these actions MRRU has notified the ARU of its intention to seek compensation and at this time has reserved all rights."

with all due respect, that pretty much means nothing.
What and where are the $'s they have lost.
What support has the ARU already given them above and beyond the initial agreements.
What responsibility within these arrangements does Cox hold.
Is it all the ARU's fault in the eyes of the law.
Could go on and on.

If their position is so strong why don't they follow through with their threats and then come to an agreement. For mine their actions do not meet their words.

That said I hope the Rebs survive also.

 

[GoMelbRebels]

with all due respect, that pretty much means nothing.
What and where are the $'s they have lost.
What support has the ARU already given them above and beyond the initial agreements.
What responsibility within these arrangements does Cox hold.
Is it all the ARU's fault in the eyes of the law.
Could go on and on.

If their position is so strong why don't they follow through with their threats and then come to an agreement. For mine their actions do not meet their words.

That said I hope the Rebs survive also.

Oh, he posted the full details on the Imperium Facebook page, all the dollar amounts, all the claims - of course I don't know that info, you do realise some things are confidential in business?

Unlike the Force, who seem to have sent a copy of the alliance agreement to all members, there are some things Rebels members and fans don't know. Maybe we should, but we are offering and showing our support - that bit is our job.

 

[amirite]

Yeh ino what the Anglo Welsh Cup is, to me it's another sign and foot in the door for SA. Despite being treated as Mickey Mouse Competition for the best part, its still SA teams participating in the competition. The writing is on the wall, if you ask me i'd be giving smaller odds that SA isn't part of the Southern Hemisphere club set post 2020 than id be giving they are apart of the Southern Hemisphere set up post 2020.

I guess what I'm saying is it fills a development niche they've seen as necessary, but struggled to get right in the past.

It is a step in the European direction, but not a big one.