Quade telling it how it is

[Hugh Jarse]

The Bieber situation is relevant, and no - Chez Jarse has not forgotten about his nonsense with sleeping in after a big night on the sauce. Who was his room mate, and why did they abandon him? From a “what happens on tour, stays on tour” Wingman’s perspective, that is almost as big a crime against the Bro code as the selfish actions of JOC (James O'Connor) in the first instance.

Despite a couple of other Musketeers being on the sauce with him (the usual human headline suspects apparently), the rest of the squad did the right thing and were tucked up in their little beddie byes at the right time, and were showered and changed, prim and proper for the major sponsor opportunity on time with no fuss like we all expect a professional to be.

Where Bieber differs is that the contract he is on is not up for renegotiation, and if it were given his past indiscretions, I suspect a cash poor organisation in a bit of a revenue slump would also be looking to seriously cut back his remuneration. Like the lucky sausage he is JOC (James O'Connor) has some time to go on his existing contract.

Turning to a different tack. QC (Quade Cooper) obviously has some issues going on in his life. This is not unique to him and plenty of other talented athletes have had similar issues with injuries, form slumps, different financial expectations, fallings out with the coaching staff etc. How could it be handled better in this instance?

Inside Shoulder often cites The Darkness as setting benchmarks for others to achieve and beat. They have also recently had issues with (primarily alcohol based) breaches of codes of conduct and agreed team protocols. Smith, Guildford (bigtime), Dagg and Both Ends WeePoo spring to mind. Without knowing too much of the inside detail, it would appear that they have surrounded the troubled athlete with whatever necessary support the athlete needs to eliminate the negative influences on their performance.

Additionally the Team Management have been forthright and upfront in imposing disciplinary measures to nip things in the bud, and to demonstrate that that sort of behaviour will NOT be tolerated, to set an example to others in the team and the fans. This is probably a gross oversimplification of a complex situation. Have similar measures been implemented for QC (Quade Cooper)? The Reds CEO and Coaching Director seem to have been prominent in this regard. Has that assistance/advice/help been embraced or rejected by Team QC (Quade Cooper)?

Dingo and, by association, the ARU have been criticised for their poor Man Management. That same allegedly poor man management has resulted in 30 (+) other players in the squad behaving in an exemplary manner, arriving on time, dressed as required, with teeth brushed and hair combed. These players have managed to deliver their contracted deliverables and have more or less re-negotiated their contracts when due with a minimum of fuss and little procrastination. Illicit late night excursions into the night life districts have not been undertaken by too many, twitterings and social media use has by and large been "on message" and non-controversial, except for a couple of serial offenders who seem to constantly put their own interests ahead of the team.

Rugby is a team game that required the combined efforts of players of all shapes, sizes, skill sets, although admittedly at times key individuals can make a difference. Without the combined efforts of all in the team, the key players are often unable to realise their true excitement potential.

What makes QC (Quade Cooper) so special, that he requires special kid glove treatment that can only encourage pretenders like Marlon BrandO'Connor to throw on their Teflon suit and believe that they can get away with similar grandstanding antics without anything sticking?

The Lords of Darkness and their fans do not tolerate petulant behaviour from grandstanders, why should we?

 

[Scotty]

There are parallels though.

I guess a body like the ARU would be akin to a Government agency like the ATO who are 'keeper of our tax money' and have a (legislative) responsibility for administering/enforcing commonwealth tax law - no other body has that jurisdiction. Like the ARU code of conduct that applies to contracted ARU players, ATO public servants have the APS code of conduct. Consequences for breaking both. If I worked at the ATO and I had an issue with the Tax Commissioner and how he ran the ATO as the head of hte Agency for example nad go and speak to the media about it I would be up for possible breaches of the APS code of conduct - this would be regardless of whether I was doing my job correctly, was a high performer and committed to the world of taxation.

So if you were punished for going to the media with your issues (say a suspension or fine), would you then also expect to receive a pay cut if you were doing the same job as the last time you had a contract offer?

 

[ACT Crusader]

Richo, I agree with most of your comments. This situation is certainly mostly his doing. I think that the ARU in this could have and should have been the 'bigger person'. Their offer is a calculated insult designed to push him away or make him stay and look like he has no backbone. They want control which is a good thing but the time to take control over him and a number of other players like him passed a looooong time ago. There are other ways that they could've paid him less without it being as insulting I'm sure.

I don't think that is their intention at all, but I will say that a bit of humility never hurt anyone in the long run IMO....

Scoey, I'm sure you can appreciate that the ARU offer is not an isolated event, its a culmination of things as is the case with alot of contract negotiations. When parties jostle for position and put claim and counter claim up its done of as a result of events occurring outside the actual negotiaton room.

Did he actually think that his public actions would not have reprecussions on what happened behind closed doors at the bargaining table? It would be a union official slagging off an employer in the media and still expecting the 5% pa wage increase.

As it is with Quade, for the ARU, it's not about the money. If you feel you need to label the offer as a "punishment", so be it. I wouldn't class it as it because that suggests he is now some sort of victim. I just see the offer as an extension of a protracted negotiation where alot of things have happened and the ARU has made a business decision to eliminate some risk.

 

[BPC]

Their offer is a calculated insult designed to push him away or make him stay and look like he has no backbone.

While I don't think it was the best move ARU could have made, I think it is a stretch to say it is a calculated insult. I think it more of a case of the ARU saying that your worth to us is a lot less than it used to be. Given that ARU have some responsibility to QRU and QC (Quade Cooper) is probably far more important to the Reds than to the Wallabies at the moment, I don't think it was the right move but I wasn't in the room when the decision was made.

 

[wamberal]

As a supporter of Australian rugby, I would be very sorry to see Quade leave the game here. But I think the simple fact of life is, he is not worth as much now as he was a year ago. His performance in the RWC was below par, other 10s are doing well, and his off-field behaviour shows a lack of self-discipline, a hugely important quality for any international player, but above all, for a five-eighth.

 

[ACT Crusader]

So if you were punished for going to the media with your issues (say a suspension or fine), would you then also expect to receive a pay cut if you were doing the same job as the last time you had a contract offer?

If I was a contractor (which essentially is what Quade is) I would be very wary of my bargaining position next time I go to negotiate and would probably expect the worst - less favourable terms etc. Such is the precarious nature of that.

Back to the the ATO example, most of their staff are on 3 year union agreements with guaranteed yearly wage increases and the like But they would still potentuially be up for a demotion of a classification level and that would result in a pay cut. I think there are many situations in life/work that as a result of an incident there are the immediate reprecussions and then other consequences that follow - but that's a whole other debate....

 

[Scotty]

Did he actually think that his public actions would not have reprecussions on what happened behind closed doors at the bargaining table? It would be a union official slagging off an employer in the media and still expecting the 5% pa wage increase.

Yes, I'm sure that has never happened!

 

[Scotty]

If I was a contractor (which essentially is what Quade is) I would be very wary of my bargaining position next time I go to negotiate and would probably expect the worst - less favourable terms etc. Such is the precarious nature of that.

Back to the the ATO example, most of their staff are on 3 year union agreements with guaranteed yearly wage increases and the like But they would still potentuially be up for a demotion of a classification level and that would result in a pay cut. I think there are many situations in life/work that as a result of an incident there are the immediate reprecussions and then other consequences that follow - but that's a whole other debate..

I agree to an extent. But the the shit would hit the union fan if that same employee was required to do exactly the same amount of work with the same level of responsibility and experience for less pay if he'd already been punished.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Yeah, it wasn't my criteria for rating a player's worth. Hugh Jarse wanted to use it, but I don't think he realises it didn't support his argument.

I really couldn't give a Tinker's cuss whether Dingo goes or stays or when the guillotine is finally triggered. There are people far more experienced than me who have the responsibility, and accountability, for making that decision.

I would hope that if they move before Dingo's contract is up that they do it with a considered plan B in place, and not just a knee jerk decision like "let's appoint Nuci", or "The new coach is Link".
Those announcements should only be made after a detailed and proper objective due diligence process has been followed to select the best candidate. Not sure that this was followed when they decided to extend the Dingo. Another story.

There was a graphic in the SMH this morning comparing various #10’s records against various teams. IIRC QC (Quade Cooper)’s record against them over his career has been on par with those in the comparison. Of late, and aren’t you only as good as your last few games when you are an active player, I would suggest that QC (Quade Cooper) has not performed with distinction against the Darkness.

As stated elsewhere, Rugby is a team game and you can not shoulder all of the blame of a loss on the #10, similarly the #10 is seldom entirely responsible for all the glory of a victory.

QC (Quade Cooper)’s recent performances against the Darkness haven’t been exactly top shelf performances. Being “underdone” in Auckland and being surrounded with team mates who were outplayed and appeared overwhelmed has not helped him to deliver to his true potential.

Hardly the type of performance to have the beancounters agreeing to throw open the vaults in an attempt to retain his services.

 

[Slim 293]

I agree to an extent. But the the shit would hit the union fan if that same employee was required to do exactly the same amount of work with the same level of responsibility and experience for less pay if he'd already been punished.

Same amount of work?

That would assume he gets selected for the Wallabies, or is fit enough.

There is a strong chance for either happening as the contract offer reflects.

Add to that all of the of field issues and extreme likelihood of further off field issues.

And this isn't the APS.

 

[Scotty]

Same amount of work?

That would assume he gets selected for the Wallabies, or is fit enough.

There is a strong chance for either happening as the contract offer reflects.

Add to that all of the of field issues and extreme likelihood of further off field issues.

And this isn't the APS.

I keep getting caned for these analogies, but it wasn't me who started them!

 

[Swat]

I agree to an extent. But the the shit would hit the union fan if that same employee was required to do exactly the same amount of work with the same level of responsibility and experience for less pay if he'd already been punished.

The question has to be asked Scotty, is this actually a pay cut? The ARU had an offer on the table for Quade for most of the year which he wouldn't sign. The new offer was made given new knowledge about how Quade has been playing on the field. Given that in that during the year he played 3 games and performed poorly he should expect a reduced contract. Also taking into account that Quade only wishes to have 1 year contracts, form must play a huge role in determining the value of the player.

Based on his playing form since the last offer, Quade's new offer is more than reasonable. You cannot pay a player on 1 year contracts based on potential, you need to do it on performance.

 

[Slim 293]

It should also be remembered that the ARU's original offer was removed well before his disciplinary hearing.

There was no chance that the revised offer would be anywhere near the original.

 

[Loki74]

Isn't the analysis that the ARU only have a limited amount of money to commit to all players across all of the franchises. They therefore have to come up with an estimate of Quade's worth, as compared to other players both current and who may be up for contract renewal in the near future. They had previously put an offer on the table to Quade. Since then, he has put in some mediocre performances (admittedly as part of general poor performances by the team) and reinjured his knee. So his form is down and there is now a risk that he could have ongoing injury concerns, meaning a risk that they pay him money but he is unable to play. Presumably they have some medical reports to assist in assessing that. Additionally, he has publicly denigrated the current coaching and support staff and infrastructure and devalued the Wallabies brand by saying he would not play for them even if he was picked. This after a history of being involved in incidents that cause negative publicity for the team. Additionally, at the same time Beale's form means Cooper's value to the Wallabies is less, given a genuine alternative.

On the plus side, Cooper is immensely popular in Queensland and could be an important part of a team with serious ambitions to achieve in the Super comp.

However, given all this, seems reasonable to me that the ARU would reduce the offer. Question is whether they reduced it too far. That depends in part on how they intend to spend money not given to Cooper. For all we know, they have allocated the money in ways that are just as important to rugby (in Queensland or elsewhere). For example (not that this is the case), there may be other talented players off contract in the near future and if the money is committed to Cooper, the ARU will not have money to offer them, which could mean they are lost to the game instead. This might be a Lealiifano, Gill, Cummins, Foley etc. all of whom are also important for their Super teams and promotion of rugby in those States.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So if you were punished for going to the media with your issues (say a suspension or fine), would you then also expect to receive a pay cut if you were doing the same job as the last time you had a contract offer?

You need to add a variable: assuming you'd been crook and hadn't worked for all but a few weeks of the last year and your ability to work next year was in doubt.
I reckon you'd be paid weekly in arrears for the days you turned up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[BPC]

I find it odd that McKenzie is desparate to speak to Quade, yet Quade is not in contact with the QRU but can find the time to tweet photos of himself going to the movies with his bestie, $BW.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I've said my piece and don't have too much more to add that hasn't already been posted (quite frequently).

I feel honoured to be part of the effort to make it to 100 pages, but feel it is time to impose rule 10 and let some others do the heavy lifting for a while as we strive valiantly towards the 150 and double ton marks.

Full Credit to QC (Quade Cooper) and members of Team QC (Quade Cooper) who have provided all the inspiration to get us to these lofty heights. ( I see we are running neck and neck with the Waratahs 2013 thread)

I may return from the wilderness on this thread if there is any new information out of one or other of the parties, meaning I'll probably be back around mid Monday afternoon following QC (Quade Cooper)'s presser. Can't wait for that little effort.

Good luck and keep it going.

 

[Ignoto]

The Lords of Darkness and their fans do not tolerate petulant behaviour from grandstanders, why should we?

We shouldn't accept the behaviour, but the ARU set the precedent early in the Musketeers careers that they're the golden children and swept everything under the rug. So it's no surprise that there are a few hiccups along the way. Instead of setting the tone early on that shenanigans aren't going to be tolerated, they turned a blind eye which allowed them think there's nothing wrong with their behaviour. While the rest of the team know right from wrong, I'm sure we can find plenty of stories about how the Amigos were given leniency through silly schoolyard behaviour when they were younger.

We still haven't heard/seen anything about Kurtley's early morning box with a bouncer from the ARU nor was there anything mentioned about Beale, Cooper and Ioane crashing a car in the early mornings in Brisbane a couple days before flying out for TRC games.

Simply put, there is an unbelievable amount of miss-management going through the ARU, whether it be addressing behaviour issues, contracting with players, ensuring our players stay in the country and even the well-being of our players. Christ, how many players have been mishandled in their recovery of an injury? How many players were obviously not in shape/fitness/form to the average punter but were thrown against the bus of finest players other countries had?

The fans don't accept the behaviour, the jackets at the ARU do, because their so shit scared of players leaving the game played in heaven rather than ensuring grass on the otherside isn't as green.

 

[Richo]

I suppose for some the similarities to the JOC (James O'Connor) situation are relevant. Young bloke, did something stupid, me first attitude, let the team down. For me it's the differences that are compelling. He didn't bash his team in public, didn't complain about coaching decisions, didn't say he wouldn't play if given the chance, and so on. What's more, he signed a two year contact when it was offered to him (talking ARU, not WARU) and then played like a demon at the RWC. His injured season hasn't also been ravaged by public controversy. IMO, the differences are just far greater than the similarities.

Edit: anyway, my aim isn't to defend JOC (James O'Connor), just to say that the waters are muddied enough without dragging that quite different situation into it.

 

[Braveheart81]

I've said my piece and don't have too much more to add that hasn't already been posted (quite frequently).

I feel honoured to be part of the effort to make it to 100 pages, but feel it is time to impose rule 10 and let some others do the heavy lifting for a while as we strive valiantly towards the 150 and double ton marks.

Full Credit to QC (Quade Cooper) and members of Team QC (Quade Cooper) who have provided all the inspiration to get us to these lofty heights. ( I see we are running neck and neck with the Waratahs 2013 thread)

I may return from the wilderness on this thread if there is any new information out of one or other of the parties, meaning I'll probably be back around mid Monday afternoon following QC (Quade Cooper)'s presser. Can't wait for that little effort.

Good luck and keep it going.

That sounds to me like the easy way out.

Next you'll be telling us you're posting on a Japanese rugby forum and a boxing forum.