Quade telling it how it is

[Inside Shoulder]

Since the first offer he has played 3 games. Can his stocks really drop so much in 3 games? Especially when the other players who have worn 10 have not been convincing. Nobody thinks Barnes is the answer and i suspect the majority on here would argue that KB (Kurtley Beale) isn't the answer either.

The main argument for his loss of value is he has bought down his own value by his actions. Is this not what was dealt with in his disciplinary hearing? Reading between the lines you get the idea that McKenzie and now Graham think this is further punishment. They are far more qualified and will be privy to a lot more info than those on here who continue to believe the opposite. The ARU have royally screwed this up, will other players who go up for disciplinary action believe it's over when they walk out the door? This has ramifications further than just for Quade.

So your approach amounts to this, as I understand it:
Take a bloke who proved in the lead up to RWC 2011 that he has a suspect temperament, who adds to that a lack of performance at RWC 2011 and tops it off with a serious, poyentially career ending, injury.
While in rehab he plays a game of park touch (further temperament issue) and reinjures the knee but everyone's told there's no damage done. Comes back and plays like a busted for a small number of games and then goes back into team rehab - with no suggesting,nby the way, of a reinjury other than in park touch as far as I know, please correct me if there is evidence to the contrary.
He's played a handful of games in the last 12 months without distinction. Frankly, his knee issue is a worry: not too many recons requiring revision work out for their victim. He wasn't playing well prior to injury.
I would suggest he's verging on an unknown quantity for the future at this point.

That's the history.

Assume I'm in charge of how much we, the ARU, pay a bloke: how much are you telling me to write in the blanks?


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[Inside Shoulder]

You could take it further to include Shute Shield Ovals as well.

Lots of them have a hard as buggery clay cricket strip in the middle of them.

Easts doesn't. Wicks, Uni, Norths, Gordon do.

Pretty sure that the Hobbits, Rats and Pirates don't. Grey matter being stretched for the rest.

Easts does


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[Inside Shoulder]

QUADE COOPER will hold a press conference in Brisbane next Monday to outline his reasons for quitting rugby union in Australia as a number of leading NRL figures declared he would be a welcome addition to the code.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-until-2014-20121120-29o5p.html#ixzz2CnEzYLeW


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[Hugh Jarse]

Is QC (Quade Cooper) is a relationship at the moment?

IIRC, when things were going well between him and Ms Rice, things were going well behaviourally and sportingly.

Does he just need a close companion and advisor to keep him out of trouble, and regain form on the footy field?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Here's a good way to look at this issue: on the present offer QC (Quade Cooper) is not in the best 30 players in oz.
Even I don't think that's correct.


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[I like to watch]

Quades test form 'slump' coincided with super coaches decision to stick 2 non ball playing-stepping-kicking centres next to him in 2011. Fairly easy for the defence to target him and shut down any semblance of attack,no threat at all next to him. He copped all the blame , no wonder he got the shits!

Yet he thrived at Super level with a 12 in that style!
When did he thrive at Test level?
The question has been asked repeatedly, the answers in support of Quade are that
1) The whole team has played crap
2)No other 10 has played well either.
Hardly a ringing endorsement for a player that repeatedly wants special treatment because of his precocious talent.

 

[MrMouse]

Interesting NRL clubs saying "yes, we welcome him we welcome him!" then "Oh no, not with us. Somewhere else."

I know that it's predominantly due to the timing (cough well done Khoder cough) but it's still indicative that they don't see his value as great as someone like Folau, for instance.

 

[Antony]

Interesting NRL clubs saying "yes, we welcome him we welcome him!" then "Oh no, not with us. Somewhere else."

I know that it's predominantly due to the timing (cough well done Khoder cough) but it's still indicative that they don't see his value as great as someone like Folau, for instance.

That's pretty fair though. Folau dominated league at the highest level for quite a while, so being less in demand than him isn't a terminal criticism. I'm sure a lot of clubs will go to significant lengths to get cooper for 2014.

 

[Scotty]

The pass mark for many in Gaggerland for our Coach seems to be his performance/resilts against The Darkness.

Surely then, the performance/ability/contractual worth of our stars should also be measured in terms of their performances against the Darkness?

Doesn't cooper have the highest win to loss rate of all wallaby players against them? Are you saying he should therefore be the highest paid?

 

[fatprop]

It will be very interesting to see what happens, NRL clubs have pretty well spent their budgets for next season (as Folau is dealing with) and are deep into preseason

I would be not surprised if Japan or France is an option after the S15 season with the Reds.

A couple of caveats though
Is he actually fit at the moment?
Could he actually take a contract in December elsewhere?
Does he still want his Japanese sabbatical?
Does he still want time off to box?

If so, the NRL is out

 

[Scotty]

I thought his game on the weekend was his best at 5/8. The week before he tried to do too much himself and was easy for the Frogs to pick off. He also missed a lot of tackles.
Against the soap dodgers he had Taps and a lot of front foot ball. His defence was monumental. I watched the game again last night and he was taking down everything that moved in the light puce jersey and created all sorts of problems for the defence. His kicking game was also much better. Cannot wait to see him play outside Genia.
It would be best for the Wallabies if they could have QC (Quade Cooper) and Beale available.

So Beales best game at 10 has come with a ball playing 12 outside of him.

Coopers last good game at 10 came with a ball playing 12 outside of him (Barnes vs Wales). He looked to be in the process of tearing Wales a new one until he was injured in that game.

Tough to judge his few games this year. He was set up as a scapegoat vs NZ, after Deans told everyone he wasn't fit enough the week before (couldnt even make the bench), then threw him in the deep end - against NZ in NZ, with a pack that was likely to be dominanted. It was pretty obvious from there that Deans wasn't interested in supporting him.

 

[No4918]

So Beales best game at 10 has come with a ball playing 12 outside of him.

Coopers last good game at 10 came with a ball playing 12 outside of him (Barnes vs Wales). He looked to be in the process of tearing Wales a new one until he was injured in that game.

Tough to judge his few games this year. He was set up as a scapegoat vs NZ, after Deans told everyone he wasn't fit enough the week before (couldnt even make the bench), then threw him in the deep end - against NZ in NZ, with a pack that was likely to be dominanted. It was pretty obvious from there that Deans wasn't interested in supporting him.

Beale was as bad as Cooper as ever been vs the French. Then looked a lot better vs the Poms. I'm just trying to find what changed. Maybe it's that a ball playing 12 will help any of the players that pull on the 10 jersey. Cooper should have been better during the cup and not all his mistakes can be blamed on the centre choices but it certainly didn't help him or Genia. And speaking of Genia, wasn't he also shit during the RWC or have some chosen to forget this cos he is a chipper bloke?

Then we have the stats where Cooper made 16 and missed 1 tackle. The reason for this given by some was his support players did the work. Beale makes his tackle he is a legend. Who is being one eyed here?

I like McCabe and want him in the side but at 12 he isn't going to help anyone that plays 10 look good. The French were lining him up and smashing him because he is so predictable. The only time he ever beats the man is when the 10 buts him in space (as Cooper did for his try vs Argies). He never creates space on the outside for the second phase because he goes high into contact and gives slow ball allowing the defence to realign. If they had to get out of position to begin with. Sounds like hard work for a 10 for little benefit.

 

[It is what it is]

A career opportunity beckons for Quade & SBW to work together.
They love going to the movies together.

They can become the OZ movie critic versions of Siskel & Ebert.

 

[I like to watch]

So Beales best game at 10 has come with a ball playing 12 outside of him.

Coopers last good game at 10 came with a ball playing 12 outside of him (Barnes vs Wales). He looked to be in the process of tearing Wales a new one until he was injured in that game.

Tough to judge his few games this year. He was set up as a scapegoat vs NZ, after Deans told everyone he wasn't fit enough the week before (couldnt even make the bench), then threw him in the deep end - against NZ in NZ, with a pack that was likely to be dominanted. It was pretty obvious from there that Deans wasn't interested in supporting him.

You weren't saying that before the game.You thought it was a great selection.
Hindsight can be a wonderful thing.
BTW he had a ball playing 12 outside him in this game.

 

[Braveheart81]

There is much discussion about Cooper being punished twice.

The $40,000 up front fine and the suspended $20,000 and 3 match suspension were the punishment for his indiscretions.

Those events also gave cause for his current contract offer to be taken off the table. Given what he had done, this was really the only cause of action the ARU could take. That contract had been on the table for much of the year.

Being put in the position where there was now no contract on the table and a new one needed to be issued, the ARU could then work from the updated facts that were at hand. These were:

- QC (Quade Cooper) had not recovered well from his knee reconstruction and had suffered further injuries to his knee. He was still unable to play rugby and in the short period of time he had made a comeback, he hadn't recaptured the form that made him such a crucial player in 2010 and 2011.

- QC (Quade Cooper) had said many things about not wanting to play for the Wallabies and the toxic environment. It is by no means certian that he is going to remain loyal to Australian Rugby.

Given those circumstances, it would seem obvious to me that the ball is largely in QC (Quade Cooper)'s court to re-confirm his loyalty to Australian Rugby and show the form that warranted his selection for the Wallabies.

Whilst this may look like he is being punished twice, I don't see how the ARU could put a much better contract offer on the table given the new evidence available that the contract was based on.

 

[Scoey]

QCs value or liability to the ARU is more than just what happens on the field.

Glad we agree that the current offer is based on the criticism of the ARU then. Ergo, it's a punishment.

Pardon Recent.. the guy hasn't had a good test match in well over a year. Quade is the most talked up player in Australian Rugby history please give it a rest. he is ROCKS or DIAMONDS at best. mostly fields of rocks. Genia made the guy look better than he was. And I mean was.

He had close to 12 months off for a major knee reconstruction and then played what, 3 games? I'll give you a more talked up player than Quade; James O'Connor. Using your logic his contract should be torn up as he hasn't played a good test match in 12 months either. Hang on a sec, he hasn't actually played one. But no, when he comes back from injury, he'll be our new 10 and he'll tear it up and we'll all rejoice in out new Messiah. Mate, you give it a rest.

 

[Braveheart81]

Glad we agree that the current offer is based on the criticism of the ARU then. Ergo, it's a punishment.

It's a punishment as far as it's a reasonable reaction to the events that have transpired.

If you keep crashing your car, your insurance company will raise your premiums. It's not so much a punishment but a reflection of what it costs to insure you.

By the same token, if QC (Quade Cooper) hadn't been injured, had played superbly in 2012 and then received a big increase to his ARU contract, it isn't really a reward but a reflection of the events that have transpired.

 

[I like to watch]

...He had close to 12 months off for a major knee reconstruction and then played what, 3 games? I'll give you a more talked up player than Quade; James O'Connor. Using your logic his contract should be torn up as he hasn't played a good test match in 12 months either. Hang on a sec, he hasn't actually played one. But no, when he comes back from injury, he'll be our new 10 and he'll tear it up and we'll all rejoice in out new Messiah. Mate, you give it a rest.

If JOC (James O'Connor) is still injured when his contract is up, and he goes on TV and says he refuses to play for the Wallabies he would be lucky to get ANY contract.
If anyone says they refuse to do a task(play for the Wobs)how can they expect a retainer to do this task?
Assuming of course that they will regain fitness and form to justify their presence with this squad.

 

[Scotty]

You weren't saying that before the game.You thought it was a great selection.
Hindsight can be a wonderful thing.
BTW he had a ball playing 12 outside him in this game.

Not sure if I said it, but plenty did and I agreed with them.

The main failing of the selections was that he should have been brought back the week earlier, at least off the bench.

You at least must concede that it was strange of Deans to use Cooper's injury as an excuse the week before then select him the week after?

 

[emuarse]

Fucking AMEN!


I'm seriously bubbling with rage at this whole situation. The ARU stuggled on blindly, with a coach who was clearly out of his depth and has MANY, MANY PREVIOUS PLAYERS stating how fucking useless he is with player management and listening to anyone but himself. All that we've ended up with is so far:

George Smith leaving.
Giteau leaving
Gerrard being left totally in the cold despite 2.5 years as clearly the best fullback in the SH.
Cooper leaving
Mortlock being abandoned
Injured players consistently being picked when 1) Not recovered 2) not fit 3) not in position 4) not in form
Players pulled from the magicians hat and told 'you're playing this position now, don't worry that you've never played it before, international rugby is the PERFECT time to learn how to play a new posiiton'
Losing 3 in a row against England
10 in a row against NZ + record defeats etc
2 in a row against Scotland
losing against Ireland in a WC (actually, have we beaten them under Deans??!?!?! )
Losing to Samoa at home
Record defeats to SA
Record defeat against the Frogs
Shit selection
Shit gameplans
Shit management of the players
Shit fulltime interviews
Shit hair
The abandonment of franchise academy squads/development programs
Nick Phipps being our 3rd choice srcumhalf
Going 3 and a half games without scoring a try



What else can we add to this list?

WOW! Who shat in your porridge this morning?