Quade telling it how it is

[Scotty]

There is much discussion about Cooper being punished twice.

The $40,000 up front fine and the suspended $20,000 and 3 match suspension were the punishment for his indiscretions.

Those events also gave cause for his current contract offer to be taken off the table. Given what he had done, this was really the only cause of action the ARU could take. That contract had been on the table for much of the year.

Being put in the position where there was now no contract on the table and a new one needed to be issued, the ARU could then work from the updated facts that were at hand. These were:

- QC (Quade Cooper) had not recovered well from his knee reconstruction and had suffered further injuries to his knee. He was still unable to play rugby and in the short period of time he had made a comeback, he hadn't recaptured the form that made him such a crucial player in 2010 and 2011.

- QC (Quade Cooper) had said many things about not wanting to play for the Wallabies and the toxic environment. It is by no means certian that he is going to remain loyal to Australian Rugby.

Given those circumstances, it would seem obvious to me that the ball is largely in QC (Quade Cooper)'s court to re-confirm his loyalty to Australian Rugby and show the form that warranted his selection for the Wallabies.

Whilst this may look like he is being punished twice, I don't see how the ARU could put a much better contract offer on the table given the new evidence available that the contract was based on.

I think Cooper has a lack of loyalty to members of the ARU not Australian rugby, and there is a big difference.

We keep seeing the ARU being compared to normal businesses, but the aren't, are they? They are a monopoly in this country and their job is to be 'keeper of the code of rugby'. Their job is to do what is best for the game as a whole, to grow it and make it stronger.

A big difference from a normal business or employer.

 

[Scoey]

It's a punishment as far as it's a reasonable reaction to the events that have transpired.

If you keep crashing your car, your insurance company will raise your premiums. It's not so much a punishment but a reflection of what it costs to insure you.

By the same token, if QC (Quade Cooper) hadn't been injured, had played superbly in 2012 and then received a big increase to his ARU contract, it isn't really a reward but a reflection of the events that have transpired.

I agree BH, but I often do with you because you look at these types of issues with quite a level head. It's the others that can't/won't see that the revised offer is related to the criticism of the ARU amongst other things.

 

[Braveheart81]

We keep seeing the ARU being compared to normal businesses, but the aren't, are they? They are a monopoly in this country and their job is to be 'keeper of the code of rugby'. Their job is to do what is best for the game as a whole, to grow it and make it stronger.

I think the ARU has a big conflict in this situation.

In my opinion 'doing what's best for the game as a whole' in this situation would be to completely reject a player who won't sign a contract because they want to moonlight in Japan and have a boxing career and then publically state they didn't want to play for the Wallabies and that there was a toxic culture.

On the other hand, it is clear that QC (Quade Cooper) is a favourite amongst the kids and a huge talent and having him in Australian Rugby is highly likely to grow the fanbase of the game.

 

[emuarse]

I don't recall Barnes or Beale throwing one intercept this year. I barely even remember forward passes or one charge down. They don't miss tackles either.

Qwerty51 why don't you stop continually criticising QC (Quade Cooper) as a player, did he take your ice cream away from you or something? We got your drift from a number of your posts ago. let it go and add something more objective.
I really wish a moderator would cut out your one track derisional remarks

 

[Scoey]

If JOC (James O'Connor) is still injured when his contract is up, and he goes on TV and says he refuses to play for the Wallabies he would be lucky to get ANY contract.
If anyone says they refuse to do a task(play for the Wobs)how can they expect a retainer to do this task?
Assuming of course that they will regain fitness and form to justify their presence with this squad.

JOC (James O'Connor) disrespected the jersey also just prior to the RWC but this has been forgotten. Quade has also since said that he wants to play for Australia again. If you take him at his word when he says he can't play then can't we take him at his word when he says he wants to again?

What it boils down to IMO is that Quade felt he couldn't contribute to the Wallabies in a positive way so he said he wouldn't play. Sure his reasons as stated were selfish (ie inadequate facilities, game plan/s didn't suit him) but the end result was (again IMO) was that he felt he couldn't contribute in a positive way, so removed himself from the equation. Is this that much different from a player that comes out and says, I don't have the desire to play, I'm just not feeling it, I don't think I would be adding value to the team if I did play? Then that player goes away, comes back refreshed and declares himself keen to play again, can we take him at his word that he has the desire back? Without a doubt. One was selfish and one was selfless, but the end result is that both players couldn't contribute to the team in the way required of them and removed themselves. The way they did it defines them. The way they are accepted back when they are able to contribute again defines the ARU.

 

[Sully]

If you have a problem with posts report them. I'm staying out of it for obvious reason but there are plenty of non Qld mods on this board who are happy to help.

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[I like to watch]

Yeah, it is a lot different. He didn't step back and say for personal reasons he was stepping back from the Wobs and would concentrate on the Reds.(And as a result would not put his hand out for Wob payments.
What he did was to dis the joint and effectively say he was on strike.At a time when his team mates were under maximum pressure with a tough game in SA to be shortly followed by another tough game with the Puma's.
I just don't get how some posters do not understand when you make an ultimatum as QC (Quade Cooper) did, you either force the result you were after,or you are left with the choice of walking away or eating humble pie big time.
He made his ultimatum, it didn't work,so now he has to walk or eat his pie.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

JOC (James O'Connor) disrespected the jersey also just prior to the RWC but this has been forgotten.

Not by me


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[matty_k]

Qwerty51 why don't you stop continually criticising QC (Quade Cooper) as a player...

Isn't QC (Quade Cooper) as a player a part of the reason he has been offered this contact?

 

[Slim 293]

Doesn't cooper have the highest win to loss rate of all wallaby players against them? Are you saying he should therefore be the highest paid?

Those stats can also be read to show that Ben Alexander is the most important Wallaby.........

 

[cyclopath]

Qwerty51 why don't you stop continually criticising QC (Quade Cooper) as a player, did he rape your sister or something? We got your drift from a number of your posts ago. let it go and add something more objective.
I really wish a moderator would cut out your one track derisional remarks

Give me a minute, and I'll apply all these parameters to this thread. Should have it down to about 2 pages.
As Sully said, if specific content of a post bothers you, report it.
But remember, most of what has been posted in this thread aint against the rules, it's just boring and repetitive.
Everyone should get a dose of rule 10.
And the bit in red? No. Just no.

 

[No4918]

Here is said rule. I think i'm done with this thread. At least until Monday or when some facts actually arise

10. If another poster does not understand or agree with your point after 3 or 4 attempts, LET IT GO, WALK AWAY. It is very boring for other posters when the thread gets hijacked by two people having an argument. Let this be your guide:

 

[ACT Crusader]

I think Cooper has a lack of loyalty to members of the ARU not Australian rugby, and there is a big difference.

We keep seeing the ARU being compared to normal businesses, but the aren't, are they? They are a monopoly in this country and their job is to be 'keeper of the code of rugby'. Their job is to do what is best for the game as a whole, to grow it and make it stronger.

A big difference from a normal business or employer.

There are parallels though.

I guess a body like the ARU would be akin to a Government agency like the ATO who are 'keeper of our tax money' and have a (legislative) responsibility for administering/enforcing commonwealth tax law - no other body has that jurisdiction. Like the ARU code of conduct that applies to contracted ARU players, ATO public servants have the APS code of conduct. Consequences for breaking both. If I worked at the ATO and I had an issue with the Tax Commissioner and how he ran the ATO as the head of hte Agency for example nad go and speak to the media about it I would be up for possible breaches of the APS code of conduct - this would be regardless of whether I was doing my job correctly, was a high performer and committed to the world of taxation.

 

[Richo]

JOC (James O'Connor) disrespected the jersey also just prior to the RWC but this has been forgotten.

JOC (James O'Connor) got smashed and missed a major sponsor event. Bloody poor and he was rightly punished. He never said he wouldn't wear the Wallaby jersey even if he was asked, or any of the other foolish things Cooper said. This is a weak comparison.

My take on this situation is pretty much in line with what BH81 has been saying. I'd love to see Cooper stay in Australian rugby, but a large portion of this situation is of his own making. Not that the ARU has exactly covered itself in glory, but I think you can make a very logical case for why events have occurred this way.

I don't think Cooper is worth top money right now, but I do think he has marketing value that the ARU has not taken into account. A modest up-front fee plus match payments would have been the right approach. On the other hand, wanting Japan written in was a joke. Aside from being completely outside the norm, the bloke has managed just a handful of games due to injury. It would be crazy for the ARU to pay him big bucks after that AND let him go off to Japan and potentially re-injure his knee playing for Panasonic or whoever.

I also think that the ARU might have decided that they were willing to cut their losses and end the saga. If Quade goes to France, say, at least he's not shitting in the tent here in Oz. Maybe next year JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale will be on fire, the Lions tour will be on the way, and no one will care about Cooper. There are a lot of possibilities.

 

[Scoey]

Richo, I agree with most of your comments. This situation is certainly mostly his doing. I think that the ARU in this could have and should have been the 'bigger person'. Their offer is a calculated insult designed to push him away or make him stay and look like he has no backbone. They want control which is a good thing but the time to take control over him and a number of other players like him passed a looooong time ago. There are other ways that they could've paid him less without it being as insulting I'm sure.

The one bit I don't agree with is my comparison to JOC (James O'Connor). For a guy who is open about his "me first" attitude him missing the jersey presentation because he had too big a night the night before is pissing on the jersey. To add to the insult, he didn't even seem bothered by it or neither could he understand why it was such a big deal. QC (Quade Cooper) cocked up and was rightly punished but he's still being punished. While people are touting JOC (James O'Connor) as the saviour of Aus Rugby when the dude hasn't played in a year and only ever had a crack at 10 when we had no other options.

 

[I like to watch]

Scoey, I hope they let JOC (James O'Connor) know that his old attitudes will no longer be tolerated as well.
I hope they a drawing a line in the sand to all, to fit in or fuck off.
It's a team game and everyone should be treated equally.
Standards of acceptable behaviour should not vary with the perception of one's value to the team.
Let's hope the next big thing, will now understand that they must comply with minimum standards of behaviour.

 

[vismyr]

 

[DPK]

What a waste. Can't the ARU dig up a lobotomy clause in his contract or something?

Talented footy player going, going, going.......

 

[mudskipper]

So I guess this means Quade doesn't honor his 40K ARU fine... I bet he hasn't paid a cent... Anyone surprised he has changed his mind about rugby within a fortnight… And it’s not about the money Quade? Please … Does he really deserve respect? is his ego hurt? … harden up I say.. 400K from the Reds isnt enough haha... what a hollow man...

The ARU shouldn’t be expected to give a guy a top up contract who said publicly to media for all could hear, he didn’t want to play for the Wallabies again… If they gave him a contract they’re then bound by it, at least guys like Foley, Lealiifano and To'omua etc can see genuine opportunity for Wallabies caps

Quade been a walking headline from day one, he wants out, and is making any excuse getting out of rugby... He can’t stand NZers booing him…

 

[Scotty]

Those stats can also be read to show that Ben Alexander is the most important Wallaby...

Yeah, it wasn't my criteria for rating a player's worth. Hugh Jarse wanted to use it, but I don't think he realises it didn't support his argument.