Quade telling it how it is

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ I used to dream of getting a "bollocking" like that from Coach.

 

[I like to watch]

Interesting bit in the article with Marto about the players giving it to QC (Quade Cooper). I think it's a good sign when the players are demanding certain standards from each other.I reckon it's great that the players thought their performance was below par.That's how teams improve, by setting standards and then working to meet them.
Sounds like they are on the same page as the coach.

"I reckon we’re tracing it too, and I honestly believe this, is after the Argentina game.
"He didn’t feel any love.
"Sure there were a few kicks charged down, a few (bad) passes. But he thought: we pulled that Test out and won, he then went into the dressing room and felt no love from the coaching staff, no love from any of the players. In fact, a few of the players got up him.
"He entered a winning Wallabies dressing room and felt like it was a loss.


Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/the-rugby-club/quade-cooper-wallabies-victim/story-fn5k35do-1226483522257#ixzz27pG9RG19

 

[Scotty]

A bit of digression.

Is it wrong to suggest the problem "children" of Aus rugby at the moment are the guys signed from school, without further higher education or actually never having to do a 9 to 5 job?

It was the obvious difference between rugby and league/afl when rugby was still amateur. Now rugby is professional and from younger ages these issues are more and more likely.

 

[Blue]

Interesting bit in the article with Marto about the players giving it to QC (Quade Cooper). I think it's a good sign when the players are demanding certain standards from each other.I reckon it's great that the players thought their performance was below par.That's how teams improve, by setting standards and then working to meet them.
Sounds like they are on the same page as the coach.

"I reckon we’re tracing it too, and I honestly believe this, is after the Argentina game.
"He didn’t feel any love.
"Sure there were a few kicks charged down, a few (bad) passes. But he thought: we pulled that Test out and won, he then went into the dressing room and felt no love from the coaching staff, no love from any of the players. In fact, a few of the players got up him.
"He entered a winning Wallabies dressing room and felt like it was a loss.


Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/the-rugby-club/quade-cooper-wallabies-victim/story-fn5k35do-1226483522257#ixzz27pG9RG19

That's pathetic. From Quade and Marto.

God almighty grow some balls.

 

[Richo]

What did he say exactly? That he thought about taking him off but decided against it?

That is a pretty mild putting of the boot from a coach really, and hardly worth getting all upset over. If Quade can't handle that sort of criticism then he needs to harden up.

Yeah, that line about Deans knocking Quade so it's okay for Quade to knock Deans is just rubbish. For starters, Deans is the coach and he is asked specific questions about specific players. If he said, "no comment" or "I can't answer with specifics in case the player in question has a tantrum" we'd all be up in arms. Deans comment was completely innocuous. He's said tougher things about many players, including recently about Beale's form. If Quade really can't hack that sort of comment (and it's really only supposition that he was annoyed about it) then he's the softest guy on the planet.

 

[Richo]

That's pathetic. From Quade and Marto.

God almighty grow some balls.

Marto is terrible. I really wish he'd just go away.

 

[Dam0]

"I reckon we’re tracing it too, and I honestly believe this, is after the Argentina game.
"He didn’t feel any love.
"Sure there were a few kicks charged down, a few (bad) passes. But he thought: we pulled that Test out and won, he then went into the dressing room and felt no love from the coaching staff, no love from any of the players. In fact, a few of the players got up him.
"He entered a winning Wallabies dressing room and felt like it was a loss.


Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/the-rugby-club/quade-cooper-wallabies-victim/story-fn5k35do-1226483522257#ixzz27pG9RG19

If that is indeed what has set this off then Quade is not someone you would want around in a representative team. I would be dollars to donuts that there were some very harsh words spoken by All Black management to the team after both Bledisloe Cup games. Teams that are happy with squeaking wins when they play badly will not improve.

 

[Scotty]

Interesting bit in the article with Marto about the players giving it to QC (Quade Cooper). I think it's a good sign when the players are demanding certain standards from each other.I reckon it's great that the players thought their performance was below par.That's how teams improve, by setting standards and then working to meet them.
Sounds like they are on the same page as the coach.

"I reckon we’re tracing it too, and I honestly believe this, is after the Argentina game.
"He didn’t feel any love.
"Sure there were a few kicks charged down, a few (bad) passes. But he thought: we pulled that Test out and won, he then went into the dressing room and felt no love from the coaching staff, no love from any of the players. In fact, a few of the players got up him.
"He entered a winning Wallabies dressing room and felt like it was a loss.


Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/the-rugby-club/quade-cooper-wallabies-victim/story-fn5k35do-1226483522257#ixzz27pG9RG19

You really think that players blowing up at each other after a game is going to improve team performance?

 

[I like to watch]

I think all the best teams are tough on themselves,and set goals and minimum standards.
Blowing up at each other is counter productive.
But "getting up" someone can be construed as anything from a quite word about doing better, to "blowing up".
Given he is being so precious about everything (a toxic environment without one specific example)You can be comfortable that if someone had yelled at him we would know about it.
I would put money on it being much closer to a quite word than someone blowing up at him.

 

[gel]

I think all the best teams are tough on themselves,and set goals and minimum standards.
Blowing up at each other is counter productive.
But "getting up" someone can be construed as anything from a quite word about doing better, to "blowing up".
Given he is being so precious about everything (a toxic environment without one specific example)You can be comfortable that if someone had yelled at him we would know about it.
I would put money on it being much closer to a quite word than someone blowing up at him.

Conjecture. About as convincing as both Spiro's pathetic opinion piece and Marto's fantasists ramblings.

 

[jollyswagman]

I am still scratching my head trying to figure QC (Quade Cooper) out as I have a hard time accepting that he honestly is as stupid and petty as he is looking right now - maybe so, but I am still scratching. Tonight was my first chance to watch to watch the Rugby Club interview thanks to GAGR's posting of the video (can't watch fox video content online here in the states). The thing that stuck out was QC (Quade Cooper)'s continual reference to the "total package" or "several factors" that pushed him over the edge. Some I think are a little less cryptic or at least ones that he was able to be more specific. He is obviously frustrated by the defensive game he has been force fed by Robbie Deans. He also pointed out the "dressing room vibe" as described in the post above as another "toxic" type situation that doesn't sit well with him. But the big one for me that left me wondering was the "top class facilities that the wallabies are lacking." He mentioned the "top class facilities" more than any other issue during the interview. The first thing we all probably think is that he is talking about some "rancho-relaxo" training base with endless red bull, putt-putt courses and stripper poles to hang out at while the boys are in camp. But to give the guy a little more credit and considering what he has gone through since the world cup, I think he is referring to the medical / rehab setup in camp.

For me, this is where I think it gets interesting....let's look at his last 12 months (or at least since the world cup) He has a knee reconstruction in Brisbane(?) and for several months under the close supervision of the Reds medical staff and specialists rehabs his knee and all seems too be going well. For a knee reconstruction his return to the field happened about as quickly as it could have so things must have gone well. He plays a few super matches toward the end of the season and then into The Rugby Championship. Now we heard a few things after the second game that his knee was giving him some problems and I remember seeing one article about some small fracture was going to rule him out then all of a sudden he was clear to play vs SA in Perth (WTF was that all about?). Then they boys take on Argentina and at some point in the match his knee gets worse to the point where he is not feeling confident enough to kick in general play (his explanation for the charge-down) and then the final hooking by RD or Captain when he was about to set himself up for the shot at the posts. I remember wondering why QC (Quade Cooper) was hooked in favor of Beale and at the time I figured it was RD's way showing Beale he still had some confidence in him, or a chance for Beale to build some confidence with a match winning kick. At the same time I recall thinking, "Geesh, QC (Quade Cooper) probably feels like a tool right now being hooked like that in front of big crowd." The point I am trying to suggest is that I think QC (Quade Cooper) has an issue with the medical staff in the Wallaby camp and this is what he is alluding to with the "facility comments." I believe that without the expert medical support he feels he needs at this stage of his comeback from the knee reconstruction that he is putting his welfare and career at risk. This is the only thing that would make sense of his comments other than accept he is a total twot. I am sure at some point not long after he blew his knee out in NZ he thought "oh shit, this could be a career changer." Then putting in all of the extra work to get back on the park in good time and showing some positive signs during the few Reds matches at the end of the season that would indicate that he wasn't a broken man. If for whatever reason he has lost all faith in the medical team in camp Wallaby then that is that last place he would probably want to be considering what he has gone through to get back to this point. Maybe he knew his knee wasn't right to play before the Argentine match but ended up playing for whatever reason. If he didn't feel confident out there he was never going to play well and he knows that. This is where his manager may play a part by getting in his ear (selfishly no doubt) and urging QC (Quade Cooper) to speak up about situation in camp.

Now throw Drew Mitchell into this mix given his cryptic tweet during the week about "finding it hard to bite my tongue." Maybe Mitchell was suggesting he wanted to speak up and bag QC (Quade Cooper) for the drama who knows. The other thought is that maybe Mitchell feels the same way as QC (Quade Cooper). He too has come back from a career changing injury, arguably more shocking than QC (Quade Cooper)'s. He works his ass off to get to the world cup and re-injures his ankle. Back into rehab and then makes his way back to The Rugby Championship only to hurt his ankle again. Remember he was meant to out with a ruptured tendon and then suddenly he was available to play then next week? What the f**k is going on? Who are these docs? Then we look at "Team Rehab" and things get really interesting. Why have we got so many of our top players on the long term injury list? Why does it take so long for these guys to get back on the park? Maybe our rehab and medical resources at the national level are non-existent. Maybe this is what QC (Quade Cooper) is speaking up about. Maybe those who are involved directly with the players - the team doctor and physio's are totally shit at what they do and the players have no confidence in them. Maybe QC (Quade Cooper) has said, "I am not coming back to play until you get a team doctor, physio and so-on that have a f**k'n clue" For me, this makes sense and may explain his frustration. Yellow or gold jersey comment aside, I believe the guy loves playing footy for his country, the fans and with his bro's in the team. He wants to be out there playing but at the same time, he is a professional athlete and has a career to worry about. If his knee doesn't work he can't work and he is out of a job. A point that his manager has no doubt reminded him.

The is no arguing that the ARU, JON specifically, and Robbie Deans have been feeling the pressure of late due to the under-performance of the team. Given the ridiculously long injury list and limited depth I can only assume that the players who may have been carrying niggling injuries into the TRC were encouraged to get out on the park regardless. Maybe QC (Quade Cooper) didn't want to play the Argentine match because his knee was not feeling 100% but he was "encouraged" to get out there and in doing so, did more damage. Now he is pissed off, feeling used and lashes out on twitter. We are constantly hearing that this player is back one week then out the next. Are they bringing players back from injury too soon? Are they not receiving the treatment they need? Maybe this is the big issue QC (Quade Cooper) is alluding too. If so, I can buy into his argument and could commend him for putting his career on the line and making a stand for what he believes in. That said, I wish he would be more specific so we all aren't left scratching our heads and thinking he is a total tool.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

You really think that players blowing up at each other after a game is going to improve team performance?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/t...im/story-fn5k35do-1226483522257#ixzz27pG9RG19

In reference to Cooper copping it from team mates straight after the game my first thought is harden up. However, I can see it from the other side of the argument & I do agree to some point. I have copped criticism from team mates after games from everything to a missed tackle or running the wrong support line. Normally water off a ducks back. But later I've sat there & thought "hang on, that player who bagged me gave away x3 penalties - that handed the opposition 9 direct points" or "that other player that went on about my support lines was binned for 10min leaving us down a player" - at this point I get dirty because it smacks of hypocrisy. I personally do not believe in firing barbs at my own team mates straight after a game even if we got flogged - that is the domain of the coach. I'm not against players giving other players advice (if they want it) or pulling a player into line if their attitude is a problem - which includes off-field incidents. However, I also believe as a player you've got to look at your own performance before running your mouth & if you made mistakes then keeping it closed & leaving it up to the coach is the best bet. Quade did not have the best of games v the Argies but he was not alone. I'd let them celebrate a win also, even if it was not very convincing you have to have time to enjoy the victory. This could be one reason Quade thinks the environment is not so good. The video session later would be the time I'd dish out the tough love. That being said if the coach likes to get stuck in straight after a game then that's their go & as a player you have to tow the line.

As I've said all along I don't like the way Quade has gone about this. The above issue is something that definitely could be dealt with in house. I know there is probably more to it though.

As far as player age & lack of experience goes I'd say Pocock whilst straight out of school would have to have been harden by some of the experiences he had in Zimbabwe. Emotional intelligence which has been brought up here is a pretty big factor, some people really just don't develop as fast regardless of what environment you put them in. I generally believe thought that it is better to have a part time job/study or some kind of other interest to Rugby.

 

[I like to watch]

That is the longest bow drawn in support of QC (Quade Cooper) ever.
He could have just made himself unavailable due to injury.
If his perception that Wobs rehab was below par,why would he not say that.He had no problem saying he didn't like defensive tactics of the coach.That the sheds felt like a losing shed even though they won.
Watch out for Gel, he will give you a caning for all of this conjecture.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/t...im/story-fn5k35do-1226483522257#ixzz27pG9RG19

In reference to Cooper copping it from team mates straight after the game my first thought is harden up. However, I can see it from the other side of the argument & I do agree to some point. I have copped criticism from team mates after games from everything to a missed tackle or running the wrong support line. Normally water off a ducks back. But later I've sat there & thought "hang on, that player who bagged me gave away x3 penalties - that handed the opposition 9 direct points" or "that other player that went on about my support lines was binned for 10min leaving us down a player" - at this point I get dirty because it smacks of hypocrisy. I personally do not believe in firing barbs at my own team mates straight after a game even if we got flogged - that is the domain of the coach. I'm not against players giving other players advice (if they want it) or pulling a player into line if their attitude is a problem - which includes off-field incidents. However, I also believe as a player you've got to look at your own performance before running your mouth & if you made mistakes then keeping it closed & leaving it up to the coach is the best bet. Quade did not have the best of games v the Argies but he was not alone. I'd let them celebrate a win also, even if it was not very convincing you have to have time to enjoy the victory. This could be one reason Quade thinks the environment is not so good. The video session later would be the time I'd dish out the tough love. That being said if the coach likes to get stuck in straight after a game then that's their go & as a player you have to tow the line.

As I've said all along I don't like the way Quade has gone about this. The above issue is something that definitely could be dealt with in house. I know there is probably more to it though.

As far as player age & lack of experience goes I'd say Pocock whilst straight out of school would have to have been harden by some of the experiences he had in Zimbabwe. Emotional intelligence which has been brought up here is a pretty big factor, some people really just don't develop as fast regardless of what environment you put them in. I generally believe it is better to have a part time job/study or some kind of other interest to Rugby.

One thing we dont know on this score is whether the players who bagged him were themselves frustrated with a lack of response by QC (Quade Cooper) to prior advice/suggestions/coaching.
Also, and i think I posted this at the time in another thread and got the rounds of the kitchen, I sensed that there was an issue between Phipps and QC (Quade Cooper) during the Argies game: I think part of the reason Phipps took a few dodgy options - like running back from whence it had come and having to throw flat passes to tired pigs who were running straight at him - was because he was being overcalled (or called given QC (Quade Cooper) was the senior man) by QC (Quade Cooper) telling him he didn't want the ball. i even sensed QC (Quade Cooper) wanted to blame Phipps for the charge down - he put his hand out in that way that say "wtf did you do that for" and they cut to Phipps looking perplexed. But the coup de grace in forming my impression was that when Phipps put Digby away to score the match winner I did not see QC (Quade Cooper) any where near Phipps patting him on the head/bum wherever and saying well done. and while digby might have been the only wallaby at the moment who could have scored that try there is no doubt that Phipps created it.
These revelations only make me more convinced that there was a rift in the team even then: not between QC (Quade Cooper) and the coach etc but between the team and QC (Quade Cooper).

 

[jollyswagman]

Just to be clear, I do think that QC (Quade Cooper) is a bit of a tool and not the sharpest tool in the shed by a long shot. What I do believe is that he is pissed about something that he thinks is critically wrong within the Wallabies Camp right now. We have all been talking for weeks about how things are fucked up at the top level in Australian rugby and here we finally have one player who is speaking up and he is getting blown apart from every angle. No, I don't agree with twittering but that is QC (Quade Cooper)'s preferred method of expressing himself (jk). I am interested only in the message he is trying to share - not so much the messenger or his methods as they are definitely flawed.

 

[jollyswagman]

One thing we dont know on this score is whether the players who bagged him were themselves frustrated with a lack of response by QC (Quade Cooper) to prior advice/suggestions/coaching.
Also, and i think I posted this at the time in another thread and got the rounds of the kitchen, I sensed that there was an issue between Phipps and QC (Quade Cooper) during the Argies game: I think part of the reason Phipps took a few dodgy options - like running back from whence it had come and having to throw flat passes to tired pigs who were running straight at him - was because he was being overcalled (or called given QC (Quade Cooper) was the senior man) by QC (Quade Cooper) telling him he didn't want the ball. i even sensed QC (Quade Cooper) wanted to blame Phipps for the charge down - he put his hand out in that way that say "wtf did you do that for" and they cut to Phipps looking perplexed. But the coup de grace in forming my impression was that when Phipps put Digby away to score the match winner I did not see QC (Quade Cooper) any where near Phipps patting him on the head/bum wherever and saying well done. and while digby might have been the only wallaby at the moment who could have scored that try there is no doubt that Phipps created it.
These revelations only make me more convinced that there was a rift in the team even then: not between QC (Quade Cooper) and the coach etc but between the team and QC (Quade Cooper).

Yeah, I sensed the same thing with the Phipps / QC (Quade Cooper) combination last. Another element at play for QC (Quade Cooper) given his #1 bro on the field, Will Genia, is going to out for an extended period. Maybe the thought of him having to play with Phipps again led him to perform his career Hari-Kari.

 

[randalf8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ssukL9a99JA#t=35s

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Just to be clear, I do think that QC (Quade Cooper) is a bit of a tool and not the sharpest tool in the shed by a long shot. What I do believe is that he is pissed about something that he thinks is critically wrong within the Wallabies Camp right now. We have all been talking for weeks about how things are fucked up at the top level in Australian rugby and here we finally have one player who is speaking up and he is getting blown apart from every angle. No, I don't agree with twittering but that is QC (Quade Cooper)'s preferred method of expressing himself (jk). I am interested only in the message he is trying to share - not so much the messenger or his methods as they are definitely flawed.

Its a weird state of affairs - because its right that many of us have been bagging Deans and the bosses and saying he has to go and yet we are in their calling out the bloke who has drawn attention to the problem we've nearly all been complaining about.
What is the process at work?
It has been an almost instinctive response - is it because its not the done thing in that it undermines the team?
Buggered if I can work it out. And i feel some guilt when it is pointed out.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

One thing we dont know on this score is whether the players who bagged him were themselves frustrated with a lack of response by QC (Quade Cooper) to prior advice/suggestions/coaching.
Also, and i think I posted this at the time in another thread and got the rounds of the kitchen, I sensed that there was an issue between Phipps and QC (Quade Cooper) during the Argies game: I think part of the reason Phipps took a few dodgy options - like running back from whence it had come and having to throw flat passes to tired pigs who were running straight at him - was because he was being overcalled (or called given QC (Quade Cooper) was the senior man) by QC (Quade Cooper) telling him he didn't want the ball. i even sensed QC (Quade Cooper) wanted to blame Phipps for the charge down - he put his hand out in that way that say "wtf did you do that for" and they cut to Phipps looking perplexed. But the coup de grace in forming my impression was that when Phipps put Digby away to score the match winner I did not see QC (Quade Cooper) any where near Phipps patting him on the head/bum wherever and saying well done. and while digby might have been the only wallaby at the moment who could have scored that try there is no doubt that Phipps created it.
These revelations only make me more convinced that there was a rift in the team even then: not between QC (Quade Cooper) and the coach etc but between the team and QC (Quade Cooper).

Yes, I feel there is a lot going on that we just don't know. I admit I did not notice the Phipps/QC (Quade Cooper) thing going on in the Argie game (I spend too much time watching the Pigglets) but it is plausible what you suggest. Not too long ago some around me at the Scot-Aus game (sorry for reminding everyone of that game) were suggesting Genia was deliberately passing shit passes to Barnes. That does not mean he was, simplest explanation being often the right one he could have just had an ordinary game. However, I can see that the scrum half could really screw around the fly half & to some degree vice versa. We need more info.

 

[randalf8]

Just to be clear, I do think that QC (Quade Cooper) is a bit of a tool and not the sharpest tool in the shed by a long shot. What I do believe is that he is pissed about something that he thinks is critically wrong within the Wallabies Camp right now. We have all been talking for weeks about how things are fucked up at the top level in Australian rugby and here we finally have one player who is speaking up and he is getting blown apart from every angle. No, I don't agree with twittering but that is QC (Quade Cooper)'s preferred method of expressing himself (jk). I am interested only in the message he is trying to share - not so much the messenger or his methods as they are definitely flawed.

Speaking up? He hasn't said anything remotely useful.

He couldn't even hit the softballs the Rugby Club panel threw at him.