Quade telling it how it is

[Blue]

I'll give Queensland fans this. They'll defend their own tooth and nail not matter what. I would have loved to see the comments by some of the Queenslanders in this thread if all this going on involved someone from NSW.

Nobody is bigger than the game. Quade seems to think he is. Link McKenzie seems to be the only person who knows how to manage him. For the ARU he must be a bloody nightmare.

Link will be the next coach and everyone will be singing Quade's praises again. Except the Kiwis of course. They will just hate him even more now.

 

[matty_k]

I'm not saying that QC (Quade Cooper)'s niggle on McCaw was the right thing to so just that not everyone is clean.

 

[FrankLind]

I'm not saying that QC (Quade Cooper)'s niggle on McCaw was the right thing to so just that not everyone is clean.

It wasn't a "niggle". It was knee to the head.

 

[Brisbok]

I'm not saying that QC (Quade Cooper)'s niggle on McCaw was the right thing to so just that not everyone is clean.

Agreed! I'm not sure how DC managed to get away with no yellow card/red card/suspension for that trip on Gregan when he was about to take the quick tap! Somehow it was not picked up by the citing commissioner after the game either!

I can't understand why more Wallaby fans have not blown up on that one either and DC somehow manages to keep his clean reputation in tact?! If that was QC (Quade Cooper)..........

 

[biggsy]

This is how a back shows dominance over a forward

If your the receiving end of another crap pass from Barnes, anyone would get smashed catching a above your head.... Where my main man Cooper would have put that ball on Pococks chest and Mortlock would have been the one that would have come off second best.

 

[Scoey]

It wasn't a "niggle". It was knee to the head.

Niggle was your word.

 

[Scoey]

Point of order: this whole thread concerns something handed to us by the media. The medium was twitter. The hand was guiding the fingers of one QC (Quade Cooper).
On your other points: you are doing a sterling job defending him you deserve full marks for loyalty.
Do you think its mere coincidence that Carter is squeaky clean (I mean its not like the British tabloids wouldn't expose him if they could - he is a worldwide star - even if you think the whole of NZ is in on a conspiracy to cover up the debauched DC) and is the best 5.8 in the world, maybe ever and QC (Quade Cooper) is lying on the couch watching South Park* with his knee in a brace?

*This is mere speculation used to illustrate the point. Further, i do not wish it to be thought that I am suggesting that South Park is either good or bad or that its just the sort of crap he would watch.

I'm not actually trying to defend what he did - it was pretty dumb and he should be pulled up for it. What I'm taking exception to is the over the top flogging he's copping and the sometimes absurd and sensational reasons his detractors are tossing up when calling for his head. On the Carter thing, I'm happy to let that go. I only mentioned him in reply. He's a quality player who appears to conduct himself well. I didn't even know about the alleged tripping of Sanchez. ;-)

 

[Scoey]

Well he tweeted that he is not allowed to play his game.That conservative tactics were a bad idea.That the culture was toxic,that there would be a cleanout of Wobbly staff shortly.
So no he didn't call RD a tool, just that his tactics were poor,and that team harmony was at an all time low,and that RD was for the chop .I don't think paraphrasing these things and saying he called him a tool is taking poetic licence.

You did it again. He never said that RD was for the chop either - again, unless I missed a tweet. So yes, paraphrasing things that he didn't actually say probably is taking poetic licence.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

he is beating to a different drum

Unless this is intended as a hint of some yet to be published allegation I think you mean marching.

 

[Scoey]

Actually, I have always believed that QC (Quade Cooper) got special considerations,due to the belief by many north of the border that he was absolutely essential to a winning Wobbly side.
There are a few off field situations he has been involved in that would have spelt the end for a fringe player.
On the field, he has been considered so special that they moved him so he didn't have to tackle,and then they selected a 12 to babysit him, to eliminate his brain farts.
Now that his form is less than stellar,people are commenting that he is no longer worthy of special treatment.
Clearly by the ZERO backing from the current squad, he is beating to a different drum.
It's a team game,he needs to be a team player.He needs to shut up, get fit and get with the program.
If he doesn't like the program then fuck off.

If this is in fact true, which I would question also, is it QC (Quade Cooper)'s fault that he was given special consideration? Easy answer, no. No player is worthy of special consideration. You know the whole, no player is above the team thing, that keeps getting trotted out by the QC (Quade Cooper) detractors in this thread.

So why are people saying that if he was playing better they would be more prepared to let it slide? Seems like a pretty big contradiction to me.

 

[Braveheart81]

So why are people saying that if he was playing better they would be more prepared to let it slide? Seems like a pretty big contradiction to me.

If you were playing incredibly, putting in a massive effort (first to training, last to leave) and were being let down by the team, the coach, the structures etc. and your comments were falling on deaf ears within the organisation you would have more grounds to go public with your criticisms.

To use the old biblical phrase, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Unfortunately in this situation it is more a case of "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

 

[I like to watch]

If this is in fact true, which I would question also, is it QC (Quade Cooper)'s fault that he was given special consideration? Easy answer, no. No player is worthy of special consideration. You know the whole, no player is above the team thing, that keeps getting trotted out by the QC (Quade Cooper) detractors in this thread.

So why are people saying that if he was playing better they would be more prepared to let it slide? Seems like a pretty big contradiction to me.

Not me, if he can play good enough on the field,and behave well enough off the field then OK pick him.
I don't believe he can do either.
In any event I read somewhere that his contract with the Reds is conditional upon him agreeing to term with the wobblies on a HIGHER rate than the existing contract.
That is never going to happen,so it looks like all of this is academic.

 

[Brisbok]

If this is in fact true, which I would question also, is it QC (Quade Cooper)'s fault that he was given special consideration? Easy answer, no. No player is worthy of special consideration. You know the whole, no player is above the team thing, that keeps getting trotted out by the QC (Quade Cooper) detractors in this thread everyone who is not a Queenslander.

So why are people saying that if he was playing better they would be more prepared to let it slide? Seems like a pretty big contradiction to me.

Fixed the first paragraph.

As for the second, the big contradiction is the fact that QC (Quade Cooper) is having a go at the "environment" created by the coaching staff and ARU when he cannot get his own house (i.e. form or off field issues) in order! Ever heard of the saying, "people with glass houses shouldn't throw stones"?

 

[I like to watch]

You did it again. He never said that RD was for the chop either - again, unless I missed a tweet. So yes, paraphrasing things that he didn't actually say probably is taking poetic licence.

Happens at the reds few years back," said another, referring to back-room problems at the QRU before an administrative and coaching cleanout which resulted in a reversal of fortunes.

Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/wallabies/quade-coopers-future-in-rugby-may-be-on-shaky-ground-after-tweeting-about-robbie-deans-and-aru/story-e6frf55l-1226479790160#ixzz27XVqx3FD

 

[Lee Enfield]

All I take out of this whole saga is the following;

1. Cooper is not saying anything different to what the majority of the people on this forum have been saying for ages. However, he probably needs to learn a little bit of humility and know when to hold em and know when to fold em. Even though his basic argument is right, he probably isn't in the greatest position to be delivering such statements. At least he wants to beat the All Blacks and at least he is sick of losing to the All Blacks, unlike some Wallabies and staff, who seem to think losing is acceptable because the All Blacks are sooo good, and close enough is good enough.

2. Forget the broom, the ARU is a cesspool and requires the liberal use of a fire hose. Until there is organisational and cultural change, I fear the Wallaby rollercoaster will be in full operation with new and improved ups and downs and twists and turns.

3. I will support the Wallabies regardless, I will celeberate each win, but I will also celebrate each loss, as each loss will edge us closer to the changes that need to occur

 

[Richo]

1. Cooper is not saying anything different to what the majority of the people on this forum have been saying for ages.

This one has been trotted out a bunch of times, so I'm not trying to picking on you, Lee. Sorry.

Why is it so hard to see that there is a difference between Quade Cooper - a member of the Wallabies, who played in their last test, who played at the World Cup, who makes a significant proportion of his income from being a member of the Wallabies - and people posting on this forum? That difference is actually at the heart of the problem for Quade and why his teammates haven't come out in support of his comments (who knows what they are saying privately). If you're a member of an organization, especially one so well-remunerated, you need to act like it. Some seem to think that Quade is some kind of poor, oppressed guy who, after suffering under the terrible reign of Robbie, had no choice but to take to Twitter with a great cry for freedom.

Come off it.

Many of his comments may be true and I certainly agree with a number of them. But to think this wasn't unprofessional or poor treatment of his teammates is pretty one-eyed. Has he requested private meetings with Deans? With the ARU? Has he expressed his opinion through the captain or the leadership group? Has he called crisis meetings with the players? Has he sought counsel with older players? I don't know the answer to these things, no one does. Until we do, we might want to stop imagining Quade as some kind of freedom fighter.

 

[BPC]

Ever heard of the saying, "people with glass houses shouldn't throw stones"?

Yes, Braveheart mentioned it two posts ago.

 

[Loki74]

Not pointing you out personally Loki, but I'm having trouble with this proposition that has been put up a few times in this thread. Do we really need Cooper when we have Lilo, JOC (James O'Connor), Barnes and Beale all options at 10.

• Lilo a stellar season at S15 but is untested at Test level. One of the many arguments about QC (Quade Cooper) is that S15 prowess does not transfer to Test arena automatically. Edit: But he has suffered a major injury and players don't always come back quickly from big injuries ie QC (Quade Cooper).
• JOC (James O'Connor) is not even the best 10 at his S15 franchise and if you ask 6 different people his best position then you'll get 6 different replies. QC (Quade Cooper) is a flyhalf. If we want to give the most important gig on the paddock to a utility back give AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) a go. Tongue in cheek but you get what I mean.
• Barnes is regularly rubbished as not being a Test #10. This is the same reason people are happy to see QC (Quade Cooper) go.
• Beale is in almost career worst form and has been making far more mistakes than QC (Quade Cooper) in recent tests. Let QC (Quade Cooper) go because of his mistake rate and then install someone who is going worse?

I can't swallow that. We don't have players that are specialists in their positions. THAT is why we struggle at a national level. Yet we have a dedicated fly half in QC (Quade Cooper) but sure, let him go - we don't need him. Doesn't make sense.

I agree with you in many respects. I think JOC (James O'Connor) is far from being the answer at 10. What has he done to suggest that he is. Both Lilo and Beale have played there though - although neither immediate options, one through injury, one through form and (I suspect) some mental distractions.
I guess my point with QC (Quade Cooper) is that he isn't playing fantastically at the moment and has not since the RWC. He has another injury (not a good sign) meaning that he is unlikely to play any rugby probably for another 6 months - meaning he certainly isn't the immediate answer. He clearly has attitude problems which means he can't fit into the current team environment. Meaning that any of the above may well be as good, if not better, options moving forward. The only scenario in which QC (Quade Cooper) might clearly be the best option is if we sack Deans and install Link. I wouldn't mind seeing that happen, but I don't think it is overly likely, barring us getting absolutely smashed by the Boks and Argies in the next two tests.

 

[BPC]

1. Cooper is not saying anything different to what the majority of the people on this forum have been saying for ages.

I beg to differ. He has referred to the entire set-up as being a 'toxic environment'. That is a lot different to the general complaints here about the skill levels being coached into the Wallabies and the schizophrenic selections and game plan implemented by Deans.

I interpret a toxic environment as something more sinister than ineffectual coaching.

If he means further up the hirearchy into the lofty pinaccles of the ARU where his contract is under negotiation, which many people on here seem to think more believeable, then why is it appropriate lumping the coaching set-up in with the adminsitrative set-up.

It is clear that QC (Quade Cooper) is unhappy at several levels but he has taken a pretty indiscriminate swing at just about everyone other than Link and himself. Even the other players get a swipe at being unwilling to stand up to the 'obvious' problems.

I don't doubt that there are problems, the poor performances of the Wobs even when they win is evidence enough, but QC (Quade Cooper) is coming across as petulant rather than raising concerns in a mature and considered way. Maybe he is limited by the 140 character limit of twitter but if so he could have used different channels.

It's a shame because I think some of what has been raised needed to be said to shake up the coachs and administration but the way QC (Quade Cooper) has gone about it is unproductive.

 

[redstragic]

we might want to stop imagining Quade as some kind of freedom fighter.

Not Me