Quade telling it how it is
- Thread starter Brumby Jack
- Start date
- Status
Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Yeah you're right. Holidays much be much more important than having your phone on so fuckit. Who cares about contracts and such mere trivialities.
And of course managers often suffer from holiday syndrome by proxy. When their clients go on vacation, they turn their phones off too, and lie by the side of their desk and take in some rays.
Didn't take long, song came on in the car on my iPod, it just came to me. I appreciate some might not like fun being poked at the whole thing, but if we can't laugh at this saga this week, what can we laugh at?
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Dead right. This whole situation is absolutely farcical now. I almost look forward to each daily update, hoping that it will be even more ridiculous than the previous day. These guys are either absolute genii or the dumbest men in Australia.
mudskipper
Colin Windon (37)
this article pretty well sums up Quade Coopers actions and options...
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...out-with-the-aru/story-fn8ti7yn-1226520426281
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...out-with-the-aru/story-fn8ti7yn-1226520426281
scaraby
Ron Walden (29)
nah Quaide cant kick to save himself........he'd have to bring Berrick in and go and stand out the back...
Swat
Chilla Wilson (44)
That's actually the best article I've read on this whole matter.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
"The Tokoroa Twitterer."....Brilliant!
ChargerWA
Mark Loane (55)
What a shit devisive comment. The minute a NZ born star who Australia has claimed fuck's up the aussie media falls over its self to disown them. Poor form. Where is the loyalty?
Edit: Not aimed at ILTW, I posted before seeing your comment. We obvioulsy have different feelings on this issue.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Charger, you are saying that as it stands today.Australian media should be backing Quade and be loyal to him personally?
PS in terms of Quades boxing career I would love to hear that coming from the ring announcers booooming voice as Quade enters the ring.
It would be hilarious.
PS in terms of Quades boxing career I would love to hear that coming from the ring announcers booooming voice as Quade enters the ring.
It would be hilarious.
Scoey
Tony Shaw (54)
Here's an article that sums up some of the issues well IMO. The ironic thing is that it's written by a comedian!
www.theroar.com.au/2012/11/23/the-tragedy-of-quade-cooper-he-made-rugby-thrilling/
www.theroar.com.au/2012/11/23/the-tragedy-of-quade-cooper-he-made-rugby-thrilling/
How does that disown Quade? He's from Tokoroa originally, and his love of twitter makes for some nice alliteration. Not sure how that is 'divisive', and think you may be reading a bit too much into it.
.
mudskipper
Colin Windon (37)
the more I think about the whole Nasser/Cooper relationship... the more I think its like Darth Vader directing Gollum from Lord of the Rings...
Script:
Enter Darth Vader... "Quade, You don't know the power of the dark side!"why not try boxing or the NRL...
Gollum rises... "We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious They stole it from us sneaky little ARU hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!"
Darth Vader exit:... "The force is strong in this one"...
Gollum to self:.... "The master is our friend now, we don't need Robbie Deans anymore"...
Script:
Enter Darth Vader... "Quade, You don't know the power of the dark side!"why not try boxing or the NRL...
Gollum rises... "We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious They stole it from us sneaky little ARU hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!"
Darth Vader exit:... "The force is strong in this one"...
Gollum to self:.... "The master is our friend now, we don't need Robbie Deans anymore"...
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
The whole Quade debacle comes back to the governance of the ARU and the leadership shown by JON. The manifest lack of integrity in the ARU systems and behaviour in the second period of JON's reign paved the way for this to come about.
I say this because of the following points (not in time line order):-
1) JON appoints Deans from outside the group who actually applied and underwent the interview process. Whilst nearly everyone accepted this because of the Crusaders record (me included) deeper questions really should have been asked about structures and support teams, as we know the NZRU did and discarded Deans on this assessment. JON as the most experienced CEO the ARU has ever had and the anointed Messiah of Rugby governorship really should have followed the process, the integrity of the system was compromised from this point as JON could appoint (and theoretically dismiss at will).
2) Elsom is handed the Wallabies Captainship despite being injured and not playing any Rugby in Australia that year. It is pure sophistry to excuse this compromise in the integrity of the contracting system by getting around the spirit of the rules pointing out that he "signed" for a Super Club. This was seen again with the Vickerman case, injured, played a game and a half at Pro level or a bit less two years and gets a Wallaby jersey. No integrity in the system whatsoever.
3) Deans is reappointed by decree from JON, rubber stamped by a compliant and subservient board. This despite never reaching any of the stated goals.
4) The "review" into the RWC performance is conducted by people involved in the very processes being review and is then kept secret. This just promotes absolute confidence in the fans and the players. I wonder what the sponsors say about this? Worse still IMO is the fact that post review all the main people keep their jobs and a couple of support staff are moved on. Those support staff have been conspicuous in their silence IMO.
5) The behaviour of the players - JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Cooper, Giteau and others under Deans management have all been involved in off field incidents. Under previous administrations players involved in such never were involved in these things again. Why? Because they were managed better and the consequences to playing up were significant not only in terms of cash.
6)Team tactics and selection. Anybody who things that Cooper's outburst isn't linked intimately with the tactics imposed upon the side by Deans is kidding themselves. He was asked to play a game plan he is totally unsuited for. He should never have been selected for this purely defensive game plan as I have said before. Indeed I strongly suggest that had JOC (James O'Connor) or Beale been placed in 10 under those tactics they would have failed to achieve the limitted outcomes that Cooper did, simply because at 10 they have no where near the skill set that Cooper possesses. Cooper is from my observations a person that can be fragile in confidence, and the failures under the tactics employed weighed heavily on him. I have no doubt that he attempted to broach this with Deans (as he has with Link at the Reds) and met with the "my way or the highway" to quote another poster that we know Deans system is. Now we know the assistants under Deans are only there to make up the numbers and do what Deans says so where can Cooper turn to relieve this frustration and angst. He remains passionate about the game and eager to succeed, but knows there is absolutely no hope under the current tactic. Can he talk to Link and Carmichael? Of course he can but they can do nothing. So he tweets and speaks on the Rugby Club to the fans who are as shitty about the game plan and lack of hope as he is. What he gets back however is an explosion against him (even though he voices (no very well and not clearly) for breaking ranks. This is the response anybody who speaks out against their organisation receives, whether they are wrong or right or even compelled legally to do so, if you doubt this have a look at how many whistle blowers retain their jobs after breaking ranks even if their allegations are proved.
So Cooper is outed and left alone (publicly), though privately I am assured that his mates have rallied to him and I sincerely hope that is true, he faces the ARU who levy a significant fine and publicly he is still being villified with few even attempting to understand him. Meanwhile the Wallabies stumble from false dawn to false dawn with the French humiliation in their to show it is business as usual. Along comes the England game, against as I have said IMO the weakest English pack since 1998, and Beale is treated to a true 12 and gets to play an in depth ball in hand game with support runners. Executed averagely to be honest but it is more than we have seen from the Wallabies under Deans, ever really. So Beale is now the best 10 in Australia in the recent (post Bernie) era on the back of this and Cooper can be discarded by the ARU. Most reasonable analysts of the game know this for the bullshit it is, but we have a sycophantic media more interested in maintaining their contact/access and breaking news privileges than really looking at the causes of the behaviour.
Cooper declines to sign a contract which sees him significantly demoted in the pecking order. Now I believe and posted last year that all ARU contracts should be incentive only. No selection no pay. It would remove the need for the coach to select only those "contracted" players regardless of form. However that is not the system, and to everyone it is obvious that Cooper is being further penalised for his outburst, who wouldn't object? But to my mind that isn't the reason Cooper is declining to sign though. I don't think Cooper will commit to a contract he has no intention of honouring. That is if Deans remains he will not play for Australia. He would play for the Reds if the ARU permits but my take is that unless he agrees to play for the Wallabies and signs a contract to that effect they will not allow him to play for the Reds. The telling comment from Cooper was that the environment was detrimental to him. We come back to my point about him being a confidence person, if he cannot play a game plan that is aimed at winning, instead of not losing he gradually loses confidence, enjoyment and faith in his game, so it was destroying him personally. Anybody saying suck it up has never experienced similar entrapment.
As an aside I have often wondered if people are more prone to injury and illness when they are depressed and/or under stress. This could be an explanation of the inordinate injury tolls suffered by the Waratahs and Wallabies as both were under duress and unhappy as their fans criticise them, yet other sides which don't have these additional burdens don't suffer the same injury load.
So in the end from a superficial standpoint Cooper is in a bind of his own making. From a deeper POV the lack of integrity has lead to this impasse. I see no way forward and unless Cooper plays solely for the Reds next year (which I don't think the ARU will allow) he will be going. Indeed as I said earlier name me one employee (not a senior manager) who has spoken out about issues in their organisation who has kept their job? I hope Cooper will be the first I can think of and he will be in Gold next year, but I don't hold out much hope. If Deans is confirmed publicly or privately as coach for the Lions series then I doubt Cooper will sign. I know that in a similar situation I would not.
A final point, this is nothing new in Australian Rugby, indeed despite the moral high ground many here are declaiming, when Mark Ella was named Australian Captain many Qld players (and please don't turn this historical fact into any excuse for base Provincial rivalries and finger pointing) withdrew from the Wallabies team in protest. Anybody care to name the year and the players? The names could be surprising.
I say this because of the following points (not in time line order):-
1) JON appoints Deans from outside the group who actually applied and underwent the interview process. Whilst nearly everyone accepted this because of the Crusaders record (me included) deeper questions really should have been asked about structures and support teams, as we know the NZRU did and discarded Deans on this assessment. JON as the most experienced CEO the ARU has ever had and the anointed Messiah of Rugby governorship really should have followed the process, the integrity of the system was compromised from this point as JON could appoint (and theoretically dismiss at will).
2) Elsom is handed the Wallabies Captainship despite being injured and not playing any Rugby in Australia that year. It is pure sophistry to excuse this compromise in the integrity of the contracting system by getting around the spirit of the rules pointing out that he "signed" for a Super Club. This was seen again with the Vickerman case, injured, played a game and a half at Pro level or a bit less two years and gets a Wallaby jersey. No integrity in the system whatsoever.
3) Deans is reappointed by decree from JON, rubber stamped by a compliant and subservient board. This despite never reaching any of the stated goals.
4) The "review" into the RWC performance is conducted by people involved in the very processes being review and is then kept secret. This just promotes absolute confidence in the fans and the players. I wonder what the sponsors say about this? Worse still IMO is the fact that post review all the main people keep their jobs and a couple of support staff are moved on. Those support staff have been conspicuous in their silence IMO.
5) The behaviour of the players - JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Cooper, Giteau and others under Deans management have all been involved in off field incidents. Under previous administrations players involved in such never were involved in these things again. Why? Because they were managed better and the consequences to playing up were significant not only in terms of cash.
6)Team tactics and selection. Anybody who things that Cooper's outburst isn't linked intimately with the tactics imposed upon the side by Deans is kidding themselves. He was asked to play a game plan he is totally unsuited for. He should never have been selected for this purely defensive game plan as I have said before. Indeed I strongly suggest that had JOC (James O'Connor) or Beale been placed in 10 under those tactics they would have failed to achieve the limitted outcomes that Cooper did, simply because at 10 they have no where near the skill set that Cooper possesses. Cooper is from my observations a person that can be fragile in confidence, and the failures under the tactics employed weighed heavily on him. I have no doubt that he attempted to broach this with Deans (as he has with Link at the Reds) and met with the "my way or the highway" to quote another poster that we know Deans system is. Now we know the assistants under Deans are only there to make up the numbers and do what Deans says so where can Cooper turn to relieve this frustration and angst. He remains passionate about the game and eager to succeed, but knows there is absolutely no hope under the current tactic. Can he talk to Link and Carmichael? Of course he can but they can do nothing. So he tweets and speaks on the Rugby Club to the fans who are as shitty about the game plan and lack of hope as he is. What he gets back however is an explosion against him (even though he voices (no very well and not clearly) for breaking ranks. This is the response anybody who speaks out against their organisation receives, whether they are wrong or right or even compelled legally to do so, if you doubt this have a look at how many whistle blowers retain their jobs after breaking ranks even if their allegations are proved.
So Cooper is outed and left alone (publicly), though privately I am assured that his mates have rallied to him and I sincerely hope that is true, he faces the ARU who levy a significant fine and publicly he is still being villified with few even attempting to understand him. Meanwhile the Wallabies stumble from false dawn to false dawn with the French humiliation in their to show it is business as usual. Along comes the England game, against as I have said IMO the weakest English pack since 1998, and Beale is treated to a true 12 and gets to play an in depth ball in hand game with support runners. Executed averagely to be honest but it is more than we have seen from the Wallabies under Deans, ever really. So Beale is now the best 10 in Australia in the recent (post Bernie) era on the back of this and Cooper can be discarded by the ARU. Most reasonable analysts of the game know this for the bullshit it is, but we have a sycophantic media more interested in maintaining their contact/access and breaking news privileges than really looking at the causes of the behaviour.
Cooper declines to sign a contract which sees him significantly demoted in the pecking order. Now I believe and posted last year that all ARU contracts should be incentive only. No selection no pay. It would remove the need for the coach to select only those "contracted" players regardless of form. However that is not the system, and to everyone it is obvious that Cooper is being further penalised for his outburst, who wouldn't object? But to my mind that isn't the reason Cooper is declining to sign though. I don't think Cooper will commit to a contract he has no intention of honouring. That is if Deans remains he will not play for Australia. He would play for the Reds if the ARU permits but my take is that unless he agrees to play for the Wallabies and signs a contract to that effect they will not allow him to play for the Reds. The telling comment from Cooper was that the environment was detrimental to him. We come back to my point about him being a confidence person, if he cannot play a game plan that is aimed at winning, instead of not losing he gradually loses confidence, enjoyment and faith in his game, so it was destroying him personally. Anybody saying suck it up has never experienced similar entrapment.
As an aside I have often wondered if people are more prone to injury and illness when they are depressed and/or under stress. This could be an explanation of the inordinate injury tolls suffered by the Waratahs and Wallabies as both were under duress and unhappy as their fans criticise them, yet other sides which don't have these additional burdens don't suffer the same injury load.
So in the end from a superficial standpoint Cooper is in a bind of his own making. From a deeper POV the lack of integrity has lead to this impasse. I see no way forward and unless Cooper plays solely for the Reds next year (which I don't think the ARU will allow) he will be going. Indeed as I said earlier name me one employee (not a senior manager) who has spoken out about issues in their organisation who has kept their job? I hope Cooper will be the first I can think of and he will be in Gold next year, but I don't hold out much hope. If Deans is confirmed publicly or privately as coach for the Lions series then I doubt Cooper will sign. I know that in a similar situation I would not.
A final point, this is nothing new in Australian Rugby, indeed despite the moral high ground many here are declaiming, when Mark Ella was named Australian Captain many Qld players (and please don't turn this historical fact into any excuse for base Provincial rivalries and finger pointing) withdrew from the Wallabies team in protest. Anybody care to name the year and the players? The names could be surprising.
GTPIH
Ted Thorn (20)
The QLD boycott was for the 1982 NZ Tour and was more in protest at Dwyer replacing Templeton as coach. Mark Ella was made captain as Tony Shaw, the incumbent, was one of the boycotters. The others were Loane, Paul and Peter McLean, O'Connor, Moon, Pilecki, Ross and D'Arcy
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Well done GTPIH. Some facts many here probably don't know as they aren't old enough. I never prescribed to the Templeton theory though and most other scribes of the time that I can recall blamed the boycott on the appointment of Ella more than Templeton as the boycott came about after Captain was made public those named made themselves "unavailable". A moot point though and not the thrust of why I recalled this particular episode.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
The issue of poor, bordering on completely incompetent, management and governance unfortunately reoccurs on almost every thread. It's why the game is in such a dangerous and fragile position at the moment.
I am in complete agreement with Gnostic's first 5 points, although I have a different view on QC (Quade Cooper).
The fact is though with competent, procative administration, it would probably never have come to this.
I hate to keep coming back to the AFL, but compare the way they handled Israel Folau leaving (proactive, decisive, professional and win/win) to the way the ARU have handled this matter and before it Lote (reactive, indecisive, amateur and lose/lose). The contrast could not be more apparent.
I am in complete agreement with Gnostic's first 5 points, although I have a different view on QC (Quade Cooper).
The fact is though with competent, procative administration, it would probably never have come to this.
I hate to keep coming back to the AFL, but compare the way they handled Israel Folau leaving (proactive, decisive, professional and win/win) to the way the ARU have handled this matter and before it Lote (reactive, indecisive, amateur and lose/lose). The contrast could not be more apparent.
- Status