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O'Connor at 12 and McCabe at 13

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openside_tom7

Guest
To be honest I'm a bit disappointed with the centre selection for this weekend. Adam Ashley-Cooper clearly has been out of form and is not the player he was last year. I feel maybe he needs to be dropped for a game or two to find some of his form. This worked wonders with Drew Mitchell last year and could have the same effect.

Also Robbie Deans said he was going to look at James O'Connor at 12 at some point in this Tri Nations. Whether that was coming into midfield for the last 20 or starting I don't know but if his size is a worry and you want to test him at 12 at test level this is the perfect time. Olivier and de Jongh are probably the smallest centre pairing he'll face this year.

I also feel Pat McCabe will do a great job at 13 with his straight running lines suited outside two player-makers in Cooper and O'Connor. I don't know what your thoughts on this are, but I'm a tad disappointed.

What do you think?
 
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openside_tom7

Guest
Luke Morahan or Lachie Turner are viable options in my opinion. Both solid defenders, both have electric pace and both have an eye for the gap.
 
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Braveheart.

Guest
I'm going to hold judgement until I see McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) outside of Cooper.

It'll be interesting to see if Cooper can thread the needle and put ACC into a couple of holes like last year.
 
Jets

Jets

Paul McLean (56)
Staff member
I like the JOC (James O'Connor) and McCabe idea. Would be good to see this weekend at some stage but I doubt we will.

I am not sold on Horne at 13 but am willing to be convinced. Get him on the field and I may be willing to get on board that bandwagon.
 
fatprop

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
openside_tom7 said:
Luke Morahan or Lachie Turner are viable options in my opinion. Both solid defenders, both have electric pace and both have an eye for the gap.
Click to expand...


Neither (or Davies for that matter) is really decent on kick return at beating that first defender one on one, JOC (James O'Connor), Digby & Mitchell can 98% of the time be relied on do do so.

When the majority of tries are coming from turnover/kick returns a back three that can has to be the first option.
 
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Mica

Guest
I agree O'Connor is a bit wasted on the wing and offers more in the mid field. Also McCabe seem to be the typical old school crash baller. I admire his tenacity and bravery, but wish he would mix it up a bit by running at the gaps in between players or changing the angle just prior to the line.

It's funny how the role of the inside centre (2nd 5) has changed in the last 15 years or so. In days gone this postion was about pace, poise, stepping and creativity. Now it seems to be more of either a backrower or second OC type of position. The best illustration of this is Nonu/SBW now, A Mauger in the past. Is it the addage that a good big man will always beat a good little man??
:nta:

Mica
 
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high tower

Guest
JOC (James O'Connor) is Deans appointed goal kicker so he would like to minimise risk of injury in defense, Deans doesnt seem keen to use him as a run on 12 this year. We dont have other wingers who are fit and could play a similar role to JOC (James O'Connor)- 2nd phase first receiver and cocky wild card.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is the incumbent 13 from last season an is the only older head amongst the backs, especially the outside backs.
 
rugbyskier

rugbyskier

Ted Thorn (20)
Slim 293 said:
With that logic, none of the 22 players in that game should play this weekend...

And we should never play in Sydney again...
Click to expand...

I like your logic, Slim. That means the Wallabies should play those tests in Canberra instead - they've scored an average of 46 per test and conceded 9 points per test.
 
barbarian

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
RugbyFuture said:
If you watch the game McCabe was far from the problem there.
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I am not suggesting he was the problem. You asked the question why has there been so much debate about McCabe et al, and I answered there has been much debate about McCabe ET AL (so not just McCabe) because we lost to Samoa. Thought that would be fairly obvious.
 
Groucho

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Jets said:
I like the JOC (James O'Connor) and McCabe idea. Would be good to see this weekend at some stage but I doubt we will.
Click to expand...

Of course we will. JOC (James O'Connor) often goes to first or second receiver for the Wallabies.
 
Groucho

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Mica said:
I agree O'Connor is a bit wasted on the wing and offers more in the mid field. Also McCabe seem to be the typical old school crash baller. I admire his tenacity and bravery, but wish he would mix it up a bit by running at the gaps in between players or changing the angle just prior to the line.

It's funny how the role of the inside centre (2nd 5) has changed in the last 15 years or so. In days gone this postion was about pace, poise, stepping and creativity. Now it seems to be more of either a backrower or second OC type of position. The best illustration of this is Nonu/SBW now, A Mauger in the past. Is it the addage that a good big man will always beat a good little man??
:nta:

Mica
Click to expand...

An 80kg man weighs the same as a 120kg man if you can't get your hands on him. This is the argument for JOC (James O'Connor) in a nutshell.

A 120kg man is unquestionably better for hammering down defences.
 
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Mica

Guest
Groucho said:
An 80kg man weighs the same as a 120kg man if you can't get your hands on him. This is the argument for JOC (James O'Connor) in a nutshell.

A 120kg man is unquestionably better for hammering down defences.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's the analogy between unlocking the defence as opposed to bashing the door down. ;)

So long as the smaller player has sound defensive technique (as JOC (James O'Connor) does) I prefer this approach. Then again I also like my midfield general at 1st 5 and the more creative player outside them that could be unleashed when the space was available or the time was right.

Maybe that's a bit old school for the modern game, but to me that was the beauty of Larkham at his peak. Early in his career it looked like SNK might follow this path - though he never made that same transition from fullback.

When starting out in their careers I always thought it was more appropriate to play Barnes at first 5 and Cooper at second though that appears unlikely now.

A similar approach could be applied to argue that Gits should have always stuck to 12 rather than dabbling in the 10 space. Might be ok at provincial level but at international level he always looked second rate after Larkham.

Mica
 
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