O'Connor at 12 and McCabe at 13

[Athilnaur]

Pretty sure JOC (James O'Connor) has been tasked with being a roving back, so somewhere between wing and centre as opportunities arise. Has the merit of offsetting QC (Quade Cooper) beautifully if it works. Gives us 3 centres - or 3 (4 potentially given QC (Quade Cooper)) fullbacks - as situation merits. If memory serves Lomu was given a similar role in the ABs at one stage.

Could go horribly horribly wrong of course, but who'd bet against a JOC (James O'Connor)/QC (Quade Cooper)/Beale/Ioane combination?

 

[Groucho]

Maybe it's the analogy between unlocking the defence as opposed to bashing the door down.

So long as the smaller player has sound defensive technique (as JOC (James O'Connor) does) I prefer this approach. Then again I also like my midfield general at 1st 5 and the more creative player outside them that could be unleashed when the space was available or the time was right.

Maybe that's a bit old school for the modern game, but to me that was the beauty of Larkham at his peak. Early in his career it looked like SNK might follow this path - though he never made that same transition from fullback.

When starting out in their careers I always thought it was more appropriate to play Barnes at first 5 and Cooper at second though that appears unlikely now.

A similar approach could be applied to argue that Gits should have always stuck to 12 rather than dabbling in the 10 space. Might be ok at provincial level but at international level he always looked second rate after Larkham.

Mica

Interesting points, especially about Barnes at 10 and Cooper at 12. By good luck and good play, Cooper has not only made the 10 spot his own, but changed it in the process. Our game plan is now based around width. Which makes the 'unlocking' approach the right one for us now, I think. And we still have some power in close with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and McCabe.

 

[What2040]

Interesting points, especially about Barnes at 10 and Cooper at 12. By good luck and good play, Cooper has not only made the 10 spot his own, but changed it in the process. Our game plan is now based around width. Which makes the 'unlocking' approach the right one for us now, I think. And we still have some power in close with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and McCabe.

Good call Groucho - as long as QC (Quade Cooper) remains fit and healthy

 

[Gnostic]

There really is a preconception that bigger is better. For years teams have passed over great wingers looking for the next Lomu picking blokes with poor skills and in some cases poor application trying to find one. The same is happening with centres now. People point to SBW and Nonu as being huge but at 105kg or there abouts there isn't that much between him and JOC (James O'Connor) for instance. Skills will better a big semi skilled barge merchant most of the time.

 

[Jnor]

but a skilled 105kg centre is always going to beat a less skilled 105kg centre, or thats the aim

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

There really is a preconception that bigger is better. For years teams have passed over great wingers looking for the next Lomu picking blokes with poor skills and in some cases poor application trying to find one. The same is happening with centres now. People point to SBW and Nonu as being huge but at 105kg or there abouts there isn't that much between him and JOC (James O'Connor) for instance. Skills will better a big semi skilled barge merchant most of the time.

My thinking exactly. This idea that a pair of hulks in the midfield is the secret to success I find a bit baffling. Why don't we just take Higgers and Elsom and run them at 12 and 13 and play league? Then again, for the past few years England have had some moderate success with that formula. I pity the blokes who have played out wide for them though, they must get hypothermia waiting for the pill to come their way.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

but a skilled 105kg centre is always going to beat a less skilled 105kg centre, or thats the aim

They are in short supply in world rugby. The South African pair of De Villiers and Fourie are about the only big pairing who have that level of skill.

 

[DPK]

They are in short supply in world rugby. The South African pair of De Villiers and Fourie are about the only big pairing who have that level of skill.

Nonu's pretty skillful. His passing always surprises me.

 

[Bruce Ross]

People point to SBW and Nonu as being huge but at 105kg or there abouts there isn't that much between him and JOC (James O'Connor) for instance.

Spot on, Gnostic, 21kg is bugger all, unless you're the poor bastard having to mark someone who is 25% heavier than you.

 

[undercoverkiwi]

Well without Drew Mitchell we have no stand out wingers to take O'Connors spot

Having great wingers doesn't get you very far when your midfield can't get them the ball in the right space. From your perspective moving J'OC to 12, McCabe to 13 and having A Winger out wide in J'OC's place is a better option. But even then, I'd be lookiing to get AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) back into form ASAP somehow. It's the wrong time for a guy (McCabe) to be starting his test career (and I'm also thinking if you, Sonny William Williams).

 

[Athilnaur]

Undercoverkiwi; This guy has a similar profile to McCabe and did ok.

 

[undercoverkiwi]

Undercoverkiwi; This guy has a similar profile to McCabe and did ok.

Yeah, but come on, Bunce retired in 1997. We're in a different world now.

And what's more, the Wallabies are playing (it seems to me) a high-pace backs-focused game around counter-attack and (perhaps) set piece movements. McCabe doesn't really strike me as the right fit. It seems Deans has decided he needs a big guy to match up to the Boks and NZ midfields but in doing so risks sacrificing some of what makes you guys so potent.

 

[Athilnaur]

I dunno. Bunce was an inspirational defender, who broke mainline and freed up the back line. Outside QC (Quade Cooper), with JOC (James O'Connor) roving in broken play, that can work and work well. For McCabe to match Bunce tho, we are going to want to see some sweet passes/offloads. As it stands tho I suspect Deans would see that a bonus. Solid defense and pressure in midfield is what he is looking for. McCabe brings that, with a nice dose of offense.

As for SBW I'd have him any day of the week, tho Nonu and Fourie also appeal. None of those three tackle as well as McCabe.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Nonu's pretty skillful. His passing always surprises me.

He's surprisingly light on his feet for a bloke of his size and his passing game is decent, I'll agree with that. Smith is the classy distributor in that pairing though.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Frank Bunce was a terrific player and comparable in size to other centres of his era (Sella, Jase etc). What marked his quality for me was his positional play and the ability to lay on a bone crunching tackle at precisely the right moment. His battles with Jason Little were fantastic.

 

[DPK]

I agree, Athilnaur.

I hate to bring it up, but none of those (including McCabe) tackle like Horne either.

 

[undercoverkiwi]

I dunno. Bunce was an inspirational defender, who broke mainline and freed up the back line. Outside QC (Quade Cooper), with JOC (James O'Connor) roving in broken play, that can work and work well. For McCabe to match Bunce tho, we are going to want to see some sweet passes/offloads. As it stands tho I suspect Deans would see that a bonus. Solid defense and pressure in midfield is what he is looking for. McCabe brings that, with a nice dose of offense.

As for SBW I'd have him any day of the week, tho Nonu and Fourie also appeal. None of those three tackle as well as McCabe.

It seems to me the passing/offloading is a necessity or you’re starving guys like J’OC and Beale of the ball, and there’s no point even having those guys unless they’re getting their hands on the ball - a lot. Having one big defensive player does not give you the ability to play like the Boks do and force turnovers and then gas them out wide. So McCabe just seems like a half-arsed option to me.

I'm extremely uneasy about SBW. I think we'll live to regret the day he decided to try rugby.

 

[Athilnaur]

The thing is it gives QC (Quade Cooper) and his incredible distribution skills options depending on shape of play - piggies, McCabe, fast to JOC (James O'Connor), across to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Ioane or set Genia for a dart, back to Beale, the options are endless, and make it murder to plan a defense system. Well that is my vision, without QC (Quade Cooper) you can eliminate most of that

DPK if BB and Horne were available We probably wouldn't be having the discussion

 

[undercoverkiwi]

The thing is it gives QC (Quade Cooper) and his incredible distribution skills options depending on shape of play - piggies, McCabe, fast to JOC (James O'Connor), across to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Ioane or set Genia for a dart, back to Beale, the options are endless, and make it murder to plan a defense system. Well that is my vision, without QC (Quade Cooper) you can eliminate most of that

But surely the same is true with good Giteau or JOC (James O'Connor) at 12? McCabe's size and power just aren't enough to do any serious damage at test level and he'll be easily picked off. And he doesn't offload well.

 

[Athilnaur]

I'm extremely uneasy about SBW. I think we'll live to regret the day he decided to try rugby.

His defense/positioning can be off, but his work rate is great. Alongside Smith the potential is pretty formidable IMO. Not a proven tho, and I hear you. Nice problem for the ABs to have tho...