O'Connor at 12 and McCabe at 13

[undercoverkiwi]

His defense/positioning can be off, but his work rate is great. Alongside Smith the potential is pretty formidable IMO. Not a proven tho, and I hear you. Nice problem for the ABs to have tho...

Ha! Yeah, I probably shouldn’t be moaning too much. He’s got some freakish abilities, it’s just a shame he turned up less than a year out from a RWC so we haven’t had much of a look at how a decent defence (e.g. the Boks) or a clever attack (e.g. your lot) deal with him. I suspect the Bok midfield and loosies will like his running style and how he waves the ball around, and your smaller, faster midfielders will like his defensive alignment, which can be all over the place. Nonu still my first choice 12 by some margin.

 

[Athilnaur]

Giteau runs too lateral, has limited defense, and runs crap off QC (Quade Cooper) IMO. JOC (James O'Connor) is also limited on defense, but his offense is about same as Fourie maybe. This frees him up to soak into the gaps as the game requires. QC (Quade Cooper)'s breadth of vision is freakish, if Deans plan works, JOC (James O'Connor) will have a field day.

I think my prob with Gits is that he goes it alone too much. Awesome player, ethic, but needs a platform, rather than being a platform?

 

[waratahjesus]

i dont get why JOC (James O'Connor) is starting still. for me we have to many cooks. Quade doesnt need someone creative next to him, he needs to start with a crashballer so we can build momentum, the guy has one of the best long passing games i have ever seen, why bother putting it through the hands. in several different interviews this year, deans has stated that Ioane, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) will be given roaming commission to attack. who the f is staying out wide to get the freakin ball then?

there seems to be this notion that having every talented player starting can result in all of them contributing when it will leave the actual ballplayer with to many options at time and a lack of flow.

if mitchell gets healthy JOC (James O'Connor) for mine should go to the bench. lets face it, all thats there is A.finger and with respect to the season he has had, is he going to ad spark and trouble defence when he comes on or going to play his part in the machine well?

for mine if were talking the current wallabies named, bring finger on in 12, drop Mccabe out to the wing and put JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench, you have genia, quade and kurtley as creative players, you have a strong running backline and you have multiple cover and a livewire spark to come onto the field. for mine that can win us the game alot more than having him out there from the start.

 

[Athilnaur]

Will depend on patterns but am assuming Ioane hangs back if JOC (James O'Connor) in and vice versa. Inviting disaster else unless QC (Quade Cooper) is back by then. I think it comes down to taking Deans at his word - the numbers on jersey don't matter, as pointed out elsewhere all those players can FB or wing. Some of them can Centre. if they play well together - and most of them already do - gonna be interesting. Very fluid, very hard to contain.

Not gonna go there re Anthony, we all know who I wanted to get a shot in the centers :d

 

[waratahjesus]

im not saying htere all going to rove at the same time, just that we dont need them to all be capable of roving if we actually man up in the forwards and let quade run the show. its a waste to have ballplayers on the field just for the sake of it and having JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench actually ads to the team when he can come on later and ad spark.

 

[Groucho]

Yeah, but come on, Bunce retired in 1997. We're in a different world now.

And what's more, the Wallabies are playing (it seems to me) a high-pace backs-focused game around counter-attack and (perhaps) set piece movements. McCabe doesn't really strike me as the right fit. It seems Deans has decided he needs a big guy to match up to the Boks and NZ midfields but in doing so risks sacrificing some of what makes you guys so potent.

With the exception of Nonu/Williams, the New Zealand backs are the same size as ours. Are we only talking about the 12 position? It certainly isn't true that backs have gotten bigger across the board. That was the case in Oz 5 years ago but most backlines seem to be build around footballing capabilities now.

It's the 12s that seem to be freakishly large.

 

[Viking]

you make a good point waratahjesus, With JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing there could possibly be too many cooks! A stronger harder runner is definitely warranted. However i guess it comes down to the fact that JOC (James O'Connor) had a blinder of a super 15 season and Deans (or anyone else for that matter) does not have the balls to put him on the bench. How hard would it to be to say to a world-class player, one the best in super 15, to relegate him to the bench.

Do we put the best 15 players on the field and shuffle their positions? Or do we put players whom specialise in their positions and create balance? At the moment we are kind of inbetween answering both of these questions? We are trying to create balance with hard centres in McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), and now JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing but they are all out of their experienced positions. I still think it can work but they need to be play to their positions. If JOC (James O'Connor) is on the wing he needs to play as a specialised winger (not as a playmaker), his roving should be limited in my opinion. If that is a waste of his skills then so be it, we already have enough cooks.

 

[undercoverkiwi]

i dont get why JOC (James O'Connor) is starting still. for me we have to many cooks. Quade doesnt need someone creative next to him, he needs to start with a crashballer so we can build momentum, the guy has one of the best long passing games i have ever seen, why bother putting it through the hands. in several different interviews this year, deans has stated that Ioane, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) will be given roaming commission to attack. who the f is staying out wide to get the freakin ball then?

there seems to be this notion that having every talented player starting can result in all of them contributing when it will leave the actual ballplayer with to many options at time and a lack of flow.

if mitchell gets healthy JOC (James O'Connor) for mine should go to the bench. lets face it, all thats there is A.finger and with respect to the season he has had, is he going to ad spark and trouble defence when he comes on or going to play his part in the machine well?

for mine if were talking the current wallabies named, bring finger on in 12, drop Mccabe out to the wing and put JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench, you have genia, quade and kurtley as creative players, you have a strong running backline and you have multiple cover and a livewire spark to come onto the field. for mine that can win us the game alot more than having him out there from the start.

Yeah, some good interesting stuff in here until you started talking up A Fainga'a, who is just garbage.

Sorry.

 

[OLDDOG]

look, lets face it, dingo is a very savvy operator. clearly a big call to out a talent like gits, but he doesnt fit into this teams style of play. robbie is, I believe, trying to give us the optimum option of crash n bash toughness, followed by defence splitting passes, with a sprinkle of individual freakness from the JOC (James O'Connor),beale,diggers,higgers n cooper show. throw in our solid lineout platform too now, sort the front three scrum out, and we will be a team to fear, if we arent already.......

 

[Athilnaur]

Yeah, some good interesting stuff in here until you started talking up A Fainga'a, who is just garbage.

Sorry.

You risk the ire of the Qlders there undercover kiwi, they're out in swarms lately for some strange reason.

WJ not sure how you reconcile JOC (James O'Connor) to bench, McCabe to wing. If Deans did that there'd be killins. Mitchell back will pose some Qs tho.

 

[Athilnaur]

look, lets face it, dingo is a very savvy operator. clearly a big call to out a talent like gits, but he doesnt fit into this teams style of play. robbie is, I believe, trying to give us the optimum option of crash n bash toughness, followed by defence splitting passes, with a sprinkle of individual freakness from the JOC (James O'Connor),beale,diggers,higgers n cooper show. throw in our solid lineout platform too now, sort the front three scrum out, and we will be a team to fear, if we arent already.......

it was reading so well till we hit that snag . Bring back al?

 

[undercoverkiwi]

You risk the ire of the Qlders there undercover kiwi, they're out in swarms lately for some strange reason.

WJ not sure how you reconcile JOC (James O'Connor) to bench, McCabe to wing. If Deans did that there'd be killins. Mitchell back will pose some Qs tho.

Crazy idea, IMO.

It disturbs me deeply that a team with Ben Tapuai and two Fainga'as in it can with a Super Rugby title. Baffling. Ruins the credibility of Super Rugby. No wonder northern hemisphere fans think it's a soft tournament.

 

[DPK]

Gain way, NSWelshman, looks like we have our own Lawrence of Arabia to fight the Qlders.

 

[drewprint]

Gain way, NSWelshman, looks like we have our own Lawrence of Arabia to fight the Qlders.

Desperate for an ally?

 

[Slim 293]

Just having watched the McCabe reel from the match...

The idea that he 'doesn't pass' is a complete myth... actually offloaded more than I remembered...

And boy did he back up a lot at the tackle...

 

[Joe Blow]

I have always been an ardent Gits fan. But I finally agree that he is not the right man for the Wallaby 12 jersey and barring multiple injuries it is hard to see him having a starting role in the current setup.
What Genia, Cooper, JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale need is front foot ball and fast turnover ball. They will take care of the rest.
McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are both good at getting over the advantage line, have a strong defensive presence and back up the tackled player very well.
What they both also have, which maybe A. Fainga'a does not, is speed in open space and a very good broken field running ability.
Both these guys are solid rather than flashy and that offsets Coopers game very well.
Let's also not forget that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has been Australia best and most consistent back for the past 2-3 years.

 

[tranquility]

...Because we lost to Samoa?

You in a purple patch at the moment mate. Keep it coming

 

[What2040]

Crazy idea, IMO.

It disturbs me deeply that a team with Ben Tapuai and two Fainga'as in it can with a Super Rugby title. Baffling. Ruins the credibility of Super Rugby. No wonder northern hemisphere fans think it's a soft tournament.

they seemed to handle Kiwi sides - are you saying they are soft (Kiwi centres) - you have to be kidding -

 

[Riptide]

If Gits is on the outs, the JOC (James O'Connor) must be a lock for one spot given the critical goal kicking requirements. QC (Quade Cooper) is not the player anyone would want kicking the goals in a tight test.

So, what position? I think 12 is unlikely as Deans has voiced reservations on the matter and chosen not to try him here in the first two real opportunities he has had, nor has JOC (James O'Connor) been getting any time in that position in practice apparently. If McCabe goes reasonably well against a pretty weak Bok side (on paper, the lamest I have seen from them in many years), the Deans will probably persevere with him. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) most likely has 13 locked up IMO, so who will play off QC (Quade Cooper)? If McCabe is not the hard running inside back Dean is seeking, then who will he turn to? Fainga'a?

That leaves Digby and Mitchell battling it out for the other wing spot.

 

[Richo]

If Gits is on the outs, the JOC (James O'Connor) must be a lock for one spot given the critical goal kicking requirements. QC (Quade Cooper) is not the player anyone would want kicking the goals in a tight test.

So, what position? I think 12 is unlikely as Deans has voiced reservations on the matter and chosen not to try him here in the first two real opportunities he has had, nor has JOC (James O'Connor) been getting any time in that position in practice apparently. If McCabe goes reasonably well against a pretty weak Bok side (on paper, the lamest I have seen from them in many years), the Deans will probably persevere with him. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) most likely has 13 locked up IMO, so who will play off QC (Quade Cooper)? If McCabe is not the hard running inside back Dean is seeking, then who will he turn to? Fainga'a?

That leaves Digby and Mitchell battling it out for the other wing spot.

You may well be right, which is insane since Digby and Mitchell are two of our best players -- two of the most dangerous wingers in the world. It would be a real shame to see one of them go to the bench just so that JOC (James O'Connor) doesn't play 12... the position he probably wants to play!