O'Connor at 12 and McCabe at 13

[waratahjesus]

WJ not sure how you reconcile JOC (James O'Connor) to bench, McCabe to wing. If Deans did that there'd be killins.

its easy, when looking at the team balance. if were in a tight game with 30 or 20 to go. the only backs on the named bench (and thats why i was putting mccabe on the wing cos i was using the named wallabies for this weeks game) are phipps and finger, were the hell is any impact going to come from, there is none at all, no game turner and no speed increase in whats already out there. i dont think we lose that much from having JOC (James O'Connor) not on at the start and having him come on against tired forwards will create so much more impact and help the team kick on.

 

[tranquility]

its easy, when looking at the team balance. if were in a tight game with 30 or 20 to go. the only backs on the named bench (and thats why i was putting mccabe on the wing cos i was using the named wallabies for this weeks game) are phipps and finger, were the hell is any impact going to come from, there is none at all, no game turner and no speed increase in whats already out there. i dont think we lose that much from having JOC (James O'Connor) not on at the start and having him come on against tired forwards will create so much more impact and help the team kick on.

What are you talking about? As a back three player he has one of the biggest punts in the team, he is lethal on his feet and is a good ball player. Not to mention he is by far the most consistent goal kicker in the squad. I would probably prefer to see him at 12, but as long as he is in the XV I am happy.

 

[waratahjesus]

What are you talking about? As a back three player he has one of the biggest punts in the team, he is lethal on his feet and is a good ball player. Not to mention he is by far the most consistent goal kicker in the squad. I would probably prefer to see him at 12, but as long as he is in the XV I am happy.

im talking about the lack of a plan b that will kill our chances in any match thats close by having all our playmakers out on the field at the start of the game and not reserving any impact for when fresh feet are needed.

if the boks play well and dominate our forwards and quade isnt getting good ball and cant spin it wide, and JOC (James O'Connor) isnt having impact becuase of it, we look to the bench and we go, coe save us A.Finger, create, think, win........and he joins the backline and nothing changes, we need impact ont he bench plan and simple and there isnt any.

 

[Joe Blow]

You may well be right, which is insane since Digby and Mitchell are two of our best players -- two of the most dangerous wingers in the world. It would be a real shame to see one of them go to the bench just so that JOC (James O'Connor) doesn't play 12... the position he probably wants to play!

If Mitchell comes back, which it sounds as though he will, and they all stay fit then I wouldn't be surprised to see JOC (James O'Connor) at 12 for the RWC.
Deans did sort of say that he would most likely giving him a run in the centres before the RWC (but not for whole game).
Keeping his cards close to his chest and all of that.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

I see where you're ging WJ - last year as everyone got tired it was really only Burgess that came on to up the tempo. It would be handy to have some backs on the bench who aren't just utility, but can have impact too. We do it in the forwards, why not the backs?

 

[Bullrush]

I see where you're ging WJ - last year as everyone got tired it was really only Burgess that came on to up the tempo. It would be handy to have some backs on the bench who aren't just utility, but can have impact too. We do it in the forwards, why not the backs?

I think the difference is that the forwards usually have a very high workload compared to backs so the impact is more noticable - a fresh forward coming on for a tired one. Back can still be very fresh 60min into a game.

Personally, I don't like benching players for the sole reason of bringing some 'impact' on later in the game. If you're down by 3 tries by the time they get on, that's a lot of impact they need to have.

 

[waratahjesus]

so Robbies game plan seems to be to nulify the breakdown and scrum (just hang in there) then use quick ball to launch attack with width and speed.

what the hell is his plan B?

 

[Bullrush]

so Robbies game plan seems to be to nulify the breakdown and scrum (just hang in there) then use quick ball to launch attack with width and speed.

what the hell is his plan B?

Apply for AB job again?

 

[tranquility]

No disrespect WJ, as I can understand your thinking but we just don't have enough depth of talent to leave a fit JOC (James O'Connor) out of the starting team (does any side?).

 

[waratahjesus]

No disrespect WJ, as I can understand your thinking but we just don't have enough depth of talent to leave a fit JOC (James O'Connor) out of the starting team (does any side?).

i know what your saying, but the guy is playing on the wing. he isnt the best winger available, so where starting him for goal kicking. he isnt faster than davies, he isnt a better defender than turner, he isnt an all round better player at wing. If deans doesnt want to styart him close to the action, it must be due to size or directness of attack. why not bring him on later when he can have a greater impact on the game, it could be after 30 minutes, it could be after 20. we nullify his impact by where he is chosen so it makes no sense not to get the most out of him.

 

[Bullrush]

i know what your saying, but the guy is playing on the wing. he isnt the best winger available, so where starting him for goal kicking. he isnt faster than davies, he isnt a better defender than turner, he isnt an all round better player at wing. If deans doesnt want to styart him close to the action, it must be due to size or directness of attack. why not bring him on later when he can have a greater impact on the game, it could be after 30 minutes, it could be after 20. we nullify his impact by where he is chosen so it makes no sense not to get the most out of him.

I have to say that I would take O'Conner over Turner every day of the week.

JO'C has a way of find the try-line that I don't think Turner does. I've seen a number of times where Turner looks like he's in for all money just to be shut down. I think JO'C is the opposite - he'll score the try where you thought it was maybe 50/50 at best.

Just what I've seen anyway.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

agree re turner, but what about when he is competing for that spot against Mitchell and Ioane?

if only we had a better kicking 10/15 we probably wouldnt be in this mess.

 

[Scotty]

i dont get why JOC (James O'Connor) is starting still. for me we have to many cooks. Quade doesnt need someone creative next to him, he needs to start with a crashballer so we can build momentum, the guy has one of the best long passing games i have ever seen, why bother putting it through the hands. in several different interviews this year, deans has stated that Ioane, Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) will be given roaming commission to attack. who the f is staying out wide to get the freakin ball then?

there seems to be this notion that having every talented player starting can result in all of them contributing when it will leave the actual ballplayer with to many options at time and a lack of flow.

if mitchell gets healthy JOC (James O'Connor) for mine should go to the bench. lets face it, all thats there is A.finger and with respect to the season he has had, is he going to ad spark and trouble defence when he comes on or going to play his part in the machine well?

for mine if were talking the current wallabies named, bring finger on in 12, drop Mccabe out to the wing and put JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench, you have genia, quade and kurtley as creative players, you have a strong running backline and you have multiple cover and a livewire spark to come onto the field. for mine that can win us the game alot more than having him out there from the start.

I agree with JOC (James O'Connor) going to the bench when Mitchell is back, except that then QC (Quade Cooper) would be the kicker. Scary thought.

 

[Scotty]

You may well be right, which is insane since Digby and Mitchell are two of our best players -- two of the most dangerous wingers in the world. It would be a real shame to see one of them go to the bench just so that JOC (James O'Connor) doesn't play 12... the position he probably wants to play!

If AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) does not improve his form soon, then we may still see Ioane at 13. He defended in the front line against Samoa and didn't look out of place.

 

[Groucho]

im talking about the lack of a plan b that will kill our chances in any match thats close by having all our playmakers out on the field at the start of the game and not reserving any impact for when fresh feet are needed.

if the boks play well and dominate our forwards and quade isnt getting good ball and cant spin it wide, and JOC (James O'Connor) isnt having impact becuase of it, we look to the bench and we go, coe save us A.Finger, create, think, win........and he joins the backline and nothing changes, we need impact ont he bench plan and simple and there isnt any.

A 'plan b' isn't simply different playmakers coming on - it is a change in approach to the game, such as the introduction of a kicking 10 to close out a game.

 

[Groucho]

waratahjesus is Reddy! in blue. Maybe one day they will both instantaneously convert all their matter to energy, like matter meeting antimatter.

 

[Groucho]

If AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) does not improve his form soon, then we may still see Ioane at 13. He defended in the front line against Samoa and didn't look out of place.

Ioane to 13 also make room for Mitchell if he returns and demands selection.

 

[Scotty]

so Robbies game plan seems to be to nulify the breakdown and scrum (just hang in there) then use quick ball to launch attack with width and speed.

what the hell is his plan B?

We have the ability to play a forward game 1-2 passes from the ruck. Strong rucking centres and faster loose forwards. Possible plan B - ie up tempo forward assault.

If we are losing due to the plan A you suggest, it is most likely because the forwards are struggling, and then we have 5 of those to bring on from the bench. Other option is that QC (Quade Cooper) is having a shocker, whereby Beale could move the 10 and JOC (James O'Connor) to 15.

It is likely that counter attack is going to be one of our biggest weapons with Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), Cooper and Ioane bringing the ball back. I for one am very excited to see that.

Another plan B would be in using Genia's very accurate kicking game with a good kick chase to pressure the opposition.

 

[Richo]

If AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) does not improve his form soon, then we may still see Ioane at 13. He defended in the front line against Samoa and didn't look out of place.

Hadn't thought of this for some reason. I reckon you're on the money. I know his position play isn't quite as good as AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s at 13, but Digby is a pretty devastating option there.

 

[DPK]

I agree with JOC (James O'Connor) going to the bench when Mitchell is back, except that then QC (Quade Cooper) would be the kicker. Scary thought.

QC (Quade Cooper) does OK when the wind is in his sails.