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NSW U16 Trial Games and Selections 2011

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kiwi playing in Oz

Allen Oxlade (6)
Point taken.... as I said at #815 I think that he's a real talent. Time will tell how big a role size plays, if any, in his advancement.

In Jamo's defence I must say that since moving to Oz and watching schoolboy rugby he is one of the best first fives that i have seen - he reads the game well. Any player is only as good as those around him. And gentlemen please try to remember these boys are only 15 and 16!
 
C

cold coffee

Guest
Before the Westies get too excited about bashing Northern Zone guys... Although Northern Zone only won one game all weekend, they only lost one. They held Country to a draw who beat West and Baa Baas to a draw who beat Country. In the game they lost against West, up until the last 10 or 15 mins they dominated possession. Seems to me that all sides involved in this weekend could have beaten each other on a given day, which is a credit to the process.

Northern Zone also rocked by the late pull outs of Wolfgramm, Goodearl and Cannell (and the absence of Kellaway).

Hi there Malcsy, You clearly represent the North of the Harbour and Im guessing that you didnt make it to the games on the weekend... The reason i say this is that you have previously offered something better than this. It cracks me up the you guys still mention A Kellaway... Get over it dude... he has made a choice.. You made another comment which cracked me up so much that I split coffee all over the keyboard. It reads "In the game they lost against West, up until the last 10 or 15 mins they dominated possession" - Heeeellllloooo they lost 20 -zip, nil , zero , didley squat... ! If you think about your comment the coaches would be fumimg that they couldnt score a point... thanks old mate nothing personal.

Having said that the MWZ coaches were in my opinion poor with there choices as well. Why would you continually allow the ball to be kicked away for field position when you have successful ball players like Angeloni and Tepai outside - adding to that pound for pound Trent Winterstein was the best outside back all weekend.

Best game was the last game where the Baa Baa's kept the ball in hand and backed themselves and eventually it paid off. Country were a well drilled outfit and played great rugby all weekend. They went home feeling disappointed however the good old country pride shone through...
 

Malcsy

Sydney Middleton (9)
LOL ! Anger, frustration, toys, prams and dummies ! Just offering a different perspective ! Agree that Northern Zone's finishing position was reflective of their performance, however the stats suggest all sides were fairly evenly matched. Northern Zone's biggest weakness was in the backs (particularly midfield) which would not have been the case had the initially selected players been fit and the wunderkind available. It does show that Western Zone has far more depth in this age group than the North although you only need to look at the composition of A grade village competition to see that. Dipping my dummy in my latte as I type LOL !
 

wreckless

Bob Loudon (25)
[/QUOTE]If Country took lets say a country origin team to the Nationals every year, I'ld say they may have well won one or two and finished in top 3 reguarlly. The flow on effect of this is, Schools would come back to the field a bit and a whole lot of Schools players good enough to be at the Nationals would be at the nationals. If the bone heads at NSW Country had of done this years ago, no one would be talking now about dismantling the Nationals format and taking just 2 NSW teams. We would have 3 very competative NSW teams every year. NSW Country don't just shoot themselves in the foot, they self inflict one between the eye's as well !![/QUOTE]

Dingdong - can't speak for the "bone heads" but this would be an interesting concept! For me - the games played off the field lack the appeal of the games we all saw over the weekend! Thanks for your thoughtful and insightful comments! Wreckless
 
C

cold coffee

Guest
LOL ! Anger, frustration, toys, prams and dummies ! Just offering a different perspective ! Agree that Northern Zone's finishing position was reflective of their performance, however the stats suggest all sides were fairly evenly matched. Northern Zone's biggest weakness was in the backs (particularly midfield) which would not have been the case had the initially selected players been fit and the wunderkind available. It does show that Western Zone has far more depth in this age group than the North although you only need to look at the composition of A grade village competition to see that. Dipping my dummy in my latte as I type LOL !

Enjoy .... too funny !
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
My Assessment!

It is amazing to look at the divergence of opinions and/or views when teams do not perform up to expectations. Unless you have studied some form of sport psychology you probably are not aware that such people are engaging in that timeless behaviour that has been aptly named by psychologists as ‘CAUSAL ATTRIBUTION’. Therefore to wake up this morning (with this sore and wounded body of mine … some of which was self inflicted and the rest which I will attribute to Perisher Valley … lmao) I am amazed to see the explanations and/or reason given for a team’s success, or as the case has also been, its demise!

The reality of Regional football is this Gentlemen; Regional Coaches (with the exception of country who are actually worse off) are expected to pull together a team of lads, and within approximately 6 training sessions they are expected to gel these boys together to form a single unit; ‘A TEAM’; one that will play and function as the same! As proven this weekend the task is not insurmountable and taking into account the parental and individual influences that can adversely affect the cohesiveness of such teams, a coaches task is made somewhat easier if proper preparation and experience is existent! Let me explain and give two examples from this year’s Regional (and notwithstanding my absence from the last day I did have a colleague present who was able to give me feed-back on the lads and teams we were looking at).

I have noticed that a few in these pages have taken a swipe at the team coaches for their respective team’s failure (or lack of success) and in response let me just say that coaches are human too, and just like the rest us they learn (or should) from their mistakes. Furthermore it is my understanding that at the U/16 Regional level coaches are also ‘VOLUNTEERS’; they are not ‘PAID PROFESSIONALS’! In other words these coaches usually have a club team which they look after, meaning that they do not have the luxury of attending weekly games in the lead up to State and Regional Championships in order to identify talented players that back-up week-in-week-out! Nope, coaches ‘GENERALLY’ only get to see a team, from which they will identify players to select, for 100 minutes (two games). 100 minutes do I hear someone saying, surely you are wrong Newbie? Doesn’t each team play a minimum of three games at State which equates to 150 minutes? What about finals etc etc Newbie? As stated above I said ‘GENERALLY’, for if you actually look at the format of the State Championship half the teams receive a ’BYE’ and therefore only play two games of rugby (100 minutes)!

As most will know in this room I made a claim that the ‘Barbarians’ would have great success and the that the ‘MSZ’ team would be the whipping boys; and I am going to engage in some egotistical behaviour … which is most unlike me … lmao … and suggest that I wasn’t far off the mark! However my assertions back then, before Regional commenced, were not based upon ‘SHOTS IN DARK’ they were premised upon my assessment of players within each team and the respective coaching staff that had selected them, and was going to take them into the Regional!


Barbarians
The BB’s had a great player list which included players from last year’s U/15 SJRU and NSWJRU teams. Mixed in with these players were rugby players with dual backgrounds in league. Notably some of the players had also been selected to play in the Harold Matthews Competition this year (a very strong junior league competition). In particular there is one player I will exemplify here, and he is now on the lips of many in this room, and some are now touting him for a spot in the SJRU team! His name is Robert Taufa. You might recall that I noted him for his success in the Sydney Uni team for his strong running and for how he was instrumental in shutting down the strong Parra team where he made several try saving tackles (one of which was on Moeroa and another on Jamo Clark). To my utter disbelief I could not understand why MSZ did not pick him. Taufa as I noted earlier played for the St George HM team this year. He played in the ‘Centres’. I only got to see him play once this year in the HMC and that was against Parramatta. He didn’t stand out as star as he wasn’t particularly fast (and his fitness left a lot to be desired). Nevertheless he did have the ability to break tackles and defend well; in fact in this game (which STG lost) he contained Moeroa fairly well, and as stated above (and in earlier posts) he did the same at State. His spectacular try against Harry Jones (ala Jonah Lomu v Mike Catt World Cup 1995) was the best highlight for me at this year’s Regional, however I was told he scored a spectacular hat-trick against the team that didn’t want him, MSZ! Ironic is it not? What is the term most use, “PAY-BACKS ARE A BITCH”.

Ultimately, much of the success of the Barbarians has to be attributed to their coaches; Neale Richardson and Sy Lagaaia. You will note that Richardson was the coach of the Parramatta U/16 team at State, and is also the same for the powerhouse Hills JRU U/16’S (who are presently 2nd on the ladder). Lagaaia on the other hand is the coach of the Canterbury JRU U/16’s (who are presently coming 3rd behind Hills). Both have had great success as coaches and the performance of this year’s BB’s team can only enhance their profiles as junior coaches. Well done to both! Now let us look at MSZ!


MSZ
At #804 MOTH quoted me, and then referred to a certain club coach being reprimanded over allegedly telling his club lads to decline selection in the MSZ team and come over to the BB’s where he was coaching (you guess which one). With all due respect to MOTH I don’t know how this could have been the case, for the same was in complete contrast with the rules of Zone team selection. As it stood each Zone had to select their starting 15 and those unselected were then fair game for the BB’s. Secondly no player could refuse selection if they were named in a respective Zone’s starting 15; if they did they were ineligible for selection in the BB’s (effectively ruling them out of Regional altogether). Nevertheless MOTH’s post at #804 does have some credibility and it has a lot to do with selection of last year’s U/15 MSZ team and its coach from last year. Last year the coach MOTH has referred to at #804 was bitterly disappointed (and so was his club I am led to believe) when only a few of his lads were selected in the U/15 MSZ team last year. He was later incensed when the same lads spent most of the time on the bench. These same lads were players who came from a club that had to leave the U/15 MSZ competition last year for the much stronger MWZ Competition (which BTW they won!), because they were slaughtering the other teams within the MSZ competition (for example consider the Southern Barbarians team that came into the revamped SJRU ‘ZONE-LESS’ U/16 competition this year. They were quickly relegated to the B Division because they were being comprehensively put to the sword each week!).

This year the coach from last year’s U/15’s MSZ team was again selected (i.e. the U/16’s MSZ team). When this occurred it is my understanding that the coach MOTH was referring to (i.e. the BB’s U/16 coach this year) expressed reservations to SJRU that his lads were again going to be overlooked. For mine he was correct, and one of those lads was Robert Taufa (the lad who scored the hat-trick against MSZ). I bet he was cheering when MSZ discarded Taufa. Then again I bet the whole BB’s coaching staff was celebrating at some of the discarded players they were able to secure! Nevertheless to highlight my point Taufa stood out like proverbial ‘DOGS B@LLS’ at State and should never have been overlooked by MSZ, and the same is true of some of his other team mates at State! For mine Malcy summarised it succinctly in his post at #420 when he stated the following:
“You could run all sorts of conspiracy theories if you wanted... How all but 3 of the Barbarians side are from the two coaches' Western and Southern Zones... How there are 14 B grade club players compared to 9 A grade club players in Met South...”

Nevertheless, credit where credit is due, and MSZ should be congratulated for some of the close competition they gave the other teams. I am told it is because they utilised some of their A Grade boys a lot better than they did last year. I also know that their very good centre combination of Kagiassis and Morgan were respectively injured and ill! Essentially you can’t help bad luck and every coach has to go through it at some-time!

In conclusion I put this to all and sundry. Leaving bad luck aside for injuries and the like (however that is what the selection of reserves is for), the results from this weekend’s U/16 Regional was ultimately a reflection of each respective team’s ‘Coaching Staff’ and the experience they brought to their roles! Full stop! Ultimately fortune favours the brave and for mine the CJRU and BB’s coaching staff opitimised this! In the face of adversity and obvious hurdles they prevailed! My hat goes off to them!

Hazzah … hazzah … hazzah!!

Regards,
Newbie
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
Hello Newbie – blah, blah, blah, blah – so many words – you need to draw a breath..

RE MSZ - You put it out there that Morgan wanted to play with the BBs, not me! It really is quite easy – a person made an offer to players that should not have been made and got smacked for it – what do you not understand in this sentence? I know it was in direct violation of the selection rules for regionals, you know it – have to wonder – did the coach? Kinda doubt it! MSZ officials got wind of the offer and put a stop to it – the right thing prevailed.

Anyway, this thread should be focused on the process of delivering a genuine showpiece of junior rugby, vis the selection of district -> regional -> SJRU -> NSWJRU U16 sides and that is not going right just now.

And so my question remains – how can SJRU / NSWJRU sit and twiddle their thumbs like a bunch of Neros? There are so many dubious (read obviously politically motivated) decisions being made right from squad selections (I still can’t get my head around how a team that performed as ordinarily as Eastwood got so many into MWZ?) through to the amount of game time some boys receive.

By rights – if the selectors from the 3 zones hadn’t botched it, the cattle left behind for the BBs wouldn’t have been as impressive. Regardless – the underperformers would appear to have been MNZ! MSZ were expected to be at the back of the pack and lived down to expectations. MWZ were widely tipped (despite the aforementioned weird Eastwood bias) to be at the front. To my mind – Country and BBs were the surprise packages.

Unfortunately sites like this (& NSWJRU & SJRU) don’t always help either –so much talk of who won this or that – these were meant to be selection trials for the SJRU U16 team, not a means unto themselves!
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
... How all but 3 of the Barbarians side are from the two coaches' Western and Southern Zones... How there are 14 B grade club players compared to 9 A grade club players in Met South...”

Regards,
Newbie

I know its not your quote, but you perpetuate it.

Just becasue a player is playing in the A comp does not automatically make them an A player - it is the team that has been graded not the individual.

Same works in reverse. If the team is in the B comp, that doesn't mean all the players are B standard - some are better, some are worse.

As a student of the game, you might recall Simon Poidevin making the Waratahs (and then the Wallabies) from a Div2 team UNSW in 1979- most will only remember him playing with Div 1 team Randwick. [2nd division got wiped out late 80s early 90s?]
 

CTPE

Nev Cottrell (35)
In Jamo's defence I must say that since moving to Oz and watching schoolboy rugby he is one of the best first fives that i have seen - he reads the game well. Any player is only as good as those around him. And gentlemen please try to remember these boys are only 15 and 16!

Thought he played his best footy on the weekend in the MWZ v MNZ game when he was shifted to fullback in the second half. He's got beautiful hands and linked up outside 12 on a number of occasions creating some nice opportunities for Tepai and Jonas Williams down the right side. He also kicks much better than Cotton who started at 15.

On 15's, whilst I'm a big Harry Jones fan he didn't have one of his best against MWZ on Sunday morning. On Saturday I thought he lacked finishers for what he created but in this game on Sunday it was all pretty much self inflicted errors. I also thought that both teams were poorly served by their 9's.... some of their passing was just dreadful.
 

CTPE

Nev Cottrell (35)
A great result for the Boy's from the Bush - One loss from four games, beat the eventual winners ( and tournament favourites ) MWZ, points differential of +3!

I think it goes a long way to answer the question we considered about the depth in Country rugby - those newbies ( apologies to the contributor of the same on this forum :) ) did stand up! Well done to the Boys!

A couple of observations from the weekend :

Tulloch at fullback (22) was outstanding. Every time he was NOT playing it made a huge difference. The comment has been made on this forum - how versatile is this guy!

Andrews was good as well, and consistently so!

Country did very, very well. Congrats to them and their coaches.

Tulloch's all class and can play 10, 12,13 and 15 with equal aplomb.

Andrews... wow! To me he was the find of the weekend and as much as it may rub some up the wrong way, whilst I understand that he goes to school in the Hunter Valley it wouldn't surprise me if his parents are soon on the receiving end of a few phone calls in coming weeks from some Sydney school rugby masters.
 

CTPE

Nev Cottrell (35)
Just want to raise the issue of young hookers again.

Can anyone tell me that they saw an outstanding no 2 on the weekend?
 
R

rockon

Guest
someone willing to name a Sydney side on the weekends views with options, for example Angeloni/Clark in the 10 position?
 
C

cold coffee

Guest
CTPE- He does have great skills and a fantastic boot... However from what I observed he didnt use the outside backs like Tepai and co nearly enough. If they played a game as per the Baa Baa game and put it through the hands of the back line they may of cracked the defence of very committed Country. As per his first try vs MNZ - Tepai crashed over after fast hands and great skills via a number of players.. simple play like this forces the defensive line to match up and commit... Too kick the ball down field and hope for a line out win or an opposition mistake is very optimistic and too predictable for my liking....
 

CTPE

Nev Cottrell (35)
It is amazing to look at the divergence of opinions and/or views when teams do not perform up to expectations. Unless you have studied some form of sport psychology you probably are not aware that such people are engaging in that timeless behaviour that has been aptly named by psychologists as ‘CAUSAL ATTRIBUTION’.

Hazzah … hazzah … hazzah!!

Regards,
Newbie

Lovely little novella Newbie. Quite obviously the snow hasn't improved since the weekend reports but I hear that its on its way - 40 to 60 cms by weeks end which should get you out of the Man from Snowy River and onto the slopes.

Now I've heard of Explanatory Attribution, Predictive Attribution and Interpersonal Attribution but Causal Attribution was a newbie to me. Discovered that you were actually referring to the Covariation model of attribution as proposed by Harrold Kelley. Now understand your comment.
 
D

Dingdong

Guest
Not a one CTPE ! Most are very good, but none are outstanding.
 
R

rockon

Guest
Just want to raise the issue of young hookers again.

Can anyone tell me that they saw an outstanding no 2 on the weekend?

The 2's from msz and mwz both great players. lineout throwing for both was good, overall field play was alright as well. NO really outstanding players in the 2 position from what i saw. I think the boys names were Coffill for mwz and Nick something for msz
 

CTPE

Nev Cottrell (35)
CTPE- He does have great skills and a fantastic boot... However from what I observed he didnt use the outside backs like Tepai and co nearly enough. If they played a game as per the Baa Baa game and put it through the hands of the back line they may of cracked the defence of very committed Country. As per his first try vs MNZ - Tepai crashed over after fast hands and great skills via a number of players.. simple play like this forces the defensive line to match up and commit... Too kick the ball down field and hope for a line out win or an opposition mistake is very optimistic and too predictable for my liking....

CC Jamo played 12 in the first half and interchanged with Cale at 10 from time to time. Whilst it was someone else who suggested it on this thread I too don't think that they work well together. As I said I thought that Jamo did his best work when shifted to 15 in the second half.

On Tepai, best game I've seen him play in recent times againt MNZ. His attack was top class and his defence was equally good. He certainly crunched Jones a couple of times and didn't give him an inch when Jones was attacking his corridor.
 
C

cold coffee

Guest
CC Jamo played 12 in the first half and interchanged with Cale at 10 from time to time. Whilst it was someone else who suggested it on this thread I don't think that they work well together. As I said I thought that Jamo did his best work when shifted to 15 in the second half.

On Tepai, best game I've seen him play in recent times againt MNZ. His attack was top class and his defence was equally good. He certainly crunched Jones a couple of times and didn't give him an inch when Jones was attacking his corridor.

In summary then you see him as a 15 ...........
 
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